Just because someone doesn’t want to spank their child doesn’t mean that the child runs the show. For example, it the above situation, my child would be removed. If he/she can’t play in a civil manner with other children, then he doesn’t get to play with other children. I explain the reason for removal and then remove him.
The same is true for tantrums. You throw a tantrum, we leave. This is amazingly effective. Sometimes it means I have to leave a situation when I would rather stay, but parenting isn’t always fun.
I am not sure how one can teach Johnny not to hit by hitting Johnny. Personally, I feel that methods of parenting is a choice, but this is something that I never understood about spanking as punishment.
FWIW, my parents did not believe in spanking either, so I have never been on the receiving end, which may effect my ability to appreciate it. That being said, myself and three siblings have all grown into respectful, functional members of society, which leads me to believe that spanking can’t be the only way to teach respect.
No, calling spanking domestic violence and assault is bait. It’s a gross overstatement. I am not spanking my children until they are black and blue or bleeding. I give them one swift smack on the butt. You were trying to bait me in to getting all upset at you for calling me an abuser, but I know I am not, so your trick didn’t work. Go try and shame some other parent for simply doing their job, but it won’t work on me.:rolleyes: My kids are great, well behaved for the most part, and very well adjusted. Spanking is part of that, but only part of my parenting choices.
Oh, I definitely think removing a child and other methods are totally effective. And I don’t think spanking is the only way to teach respect, not at all. And I don’t look down on parents who don’t spank, but I am also annoyed by people who paint spanking as the most horrible crime ever committed against childhood. It’s ridiculous to condemn spanking. Spanking isn’t beating.
I am still amazed though at parents who just hold their child in their arms in the hallway at church while they are kicking biting and screaming at their mom, and mom just says, " now sweetie just calm down, it’s not nice to kick mommy." That kid needs a good spanking for kicking the crap out of their mommy not a hug, because talking is obviously not working on them.
In fact, if we’re going to frame child-rearing in terms of interactions between adults, wouldn’t restraining someone by the arm (non-painfully) be considered “assault” if it was one adult restraining another? I presume most people would be okay with it between a parent and a two-year-old, however.
ETA: This post makes most sense when read just after #43
No, it’s not bait. Striking anyone is assault, period. Assaulting someone at home is domestic violence. Domestic violence against who has no recourse to move out or escape to a shelter is outright horrific.
I don’t distinguish between what you refer to as a “smack” and any other kind of assault. The fact I don’t opt into the euphemisms you prefer doesn’t make what I say “bait”, it means I’m not willing to validate child abuse by giving it a cutesy name.
So are you going to reply to what I said about there being ways of dealing with misbehaviour that isn’t assault, or are you going to refuse to engage because you don’t like that I call a spade a spade?
I dont spank my kids but I dont think it is necessarily the same as assault or abuse. Spanking should never be harmful, or cause injury. There are a lot of things parents do that kids dont like, and some non-physical things that can be cruel. I have found as an adult that if I get down to just above a kids level and look them sternly in the eye, the intimidation effect is pretty severe. I dont think anyone watching would see a problem with it, but I am just basically terrifying them into doing what I want. Its a kind of bullying really, except for their own good, or something. Other parents threaten abandonment, or tell scary stories to frighten them into cooperating, or all manner of things.
I cant really say what I mean very coherently, but a light smack that stings a bit and then its over is not the worst way to discipline a child. They might hurt themselves more falling over. It is not really the pain but the humiliation and fear, and that is more of a separate issue to me, because there are other ways to inflict that. If the kid understands the reason for the spanking, and relates it to their behaviour rather than their sense of self, then it seems like it could be effective and not especially harmful.
Parents not smacking their kids misbehaving in public is more about them not using any discipline at all. There are lots of things you could do there that dont involve spanking but you have to do something.
Very rarely, when the child does something that threatens their life or limb. Reaching for a hot stove, running out into the street without looking first, sticking a fork into an electric outlet.
Dude, have you read those articles wherein schools adopt a zero tolerance policy?
So because the school has a zero 'No Drugs" policy some poor kid winds up getting suspended because he brought an aspirin to school? And then you think to yourself: “How could they (the school) be so stupid?”
Well, that’s what you sound like right now with you Absolutist attitude.
An aspirin has a different effect though. With hitting a child, the only difference is in intention, the effects are essentially the same as if you hit an adult, ie physical pain and a fear reaction.
The problem with these issues is that the amount of people who admit they use physical discipline inappropriately seems to be far outweighed by what external witnesses would say is inappropriate or more about parental anger than about well planned management strategies. Its one of those common rationalisation issues like the majority of people saying they are above average drivers,
I wonder how many of the respondents here actually *are *parents. I’m not questioning the validity of any opinions, but I’d be curious if parents’ opinions skew more toward approval of spanking. (I have no idea, just wondering)
I’ve stated my opinion on this in previous threads. Once the kids are absolutely certain that you will spank them, you’ll almost never have to do it.
In my experience of being a kid who was spanked, and knowing a bunch of people who spank their kids, and a bunch more people who were spanked as kids, that isn’t even a tiny bit true.
Unless you’re doing some SERIOUS damage (i.e. child abuse), spanking just isn’t that bad. I’d much rather a quick smack than being deprived of my laptop for a week, even as an adult, to be honest (ignoring the whole thing about who the fuck would be allowed to smack me *or *take away my laptop). But if I take away my kid’s laptop for a week, she’ll be thinking about that for a week. If I smack her enough that she’ll be feeling the effects of that for a week, then I should definitely be put in jail. There are no other options when it comes to an older kid: you’re either guilty of child abuse, or your kid doesn’t give much of a fuck about your little swats.
There is a big difference between hitting my kid with a closed fist and giving him a slap on the bottom with an open hand. Sevencl’s on size fits all is beyond asinine. As I tried to illustrate in my previous post.
If I was less lazy I’d search for some stats about the percentage of prisoners who were spanked versus the percentage of Ivy League graduates, or even just regular non-prisoners. I do know it would support my point.
And I fully realize there are many other factors in play. But it’s so crazy when people claim that NOT hitting your kids will necessarily put them at a greater risk of [whatever danger]. It’s just so far from true.
I’m not a fanatic, and there are definitely disciplinary methods I’ve used that I wish I could take back. But I think spanking your kid for anything but a very rare infraction is, at very least, not helpful.
Just because you don’t agree doesn’t make seven’s opinion wrong. Being absolutist has nothing to do with it being right or wrong, I’m an absolutist when it comes to slavery but that position is in no way too extreme. There are plenty of countries where all corporal punishment is outlawed, and they did sign the CRC. They’re all “absolutists”, too. They’re also right. The US is right up there with it’s only friend Sudan when it comes to the rights of children.
Spanking, beating, child abuse, it’s the same thing because there is no meaningful way of differentiating between them. You weren’t angry while you hit a little kid? Oh, and you didn’t hit them very hard? And of course it didn’t leave marks, which means…?
Spanking teaches that being stronger means you are right. It teaches violence is problem solving. It does nothing to show why something was wrong, what the actual consequences of certain behaviours are or how to deal with real-life situations.
I’ve never spanked, but there was one time I went the “showing them who is boss”-route of violence. It was at a really difficult time where I was working. The manager was on holiday and so was the psychologist. Most of the other people who were working were new, and the guy left in charge was a misogynist ape unfit for working with children. As the proper system of consequences fell into disuse the children’s behaviour spiralled out of control and I was pretty much on my own trying to sort things out. I’d been having trouble with a little boy and this guy told me to take him outside and really show him, scare him. I was so tired, and after all he was my boss. So I did. I firmly grabbed him, dragged him out, forcefully sat him down and gave him an earful. He was terrified, of course. I never felt so ashamed in my life. What a ridiculous thing to do! Duh. I’m bigger and scarier than a little kid. Well done me. Fuck that noise, I knew I would never listen to that imbecile again, and that I would certainly never forcefully assert dominance over a child ever again in such a ridiculous way. Obviously it did nothing for his behaviour, he just resented me for a while and was careful to be naughty behind my back. Physical discipline allows a child to transfer blame and anger to the parent, when you want them to learn that it was their behaviour that lead to negative consequences for them. Eventually we made amends and he was disciplined in appropriate ways which lead him to change his behaviour. Thankfully I’ve never sunk so low as to raise my hand to a child in any way.
In my humble experience (four kids, now grown) a quick swat on the arse is a very useful tool between the ages of app 2.5 to 4, maybe 5yrs old. Before that it is pointless and more an expression of parental frustration. After 4-5, you shouldn’t really be needing to resort to a spank: the LOOK OF DOOM should be enough.
But in those intervening years, there ain’t nothing wrong with the short, sharp swat to inform the culprit of immediate consequences. IMHE, time-outs and deprivation of treats/liberties are meaningless in the eyes of youngsters. Their perception of time etc is at odds with ours, and like puppies, they need IMMEDIATE negative reinforcement of behaviours that are inappropriate. None of this namby-pamby-reasoning with small people: with stuff that’s serious enough to warrant a ‘punishment’, then a mild physical punishment is fine. Warn them once, maybe twice, then a whack on the bum is in order. Works a treat!!
It’s not assault, it’s not child-abuse, and it is more often than not enough to stop the behaviour in question. It’s a wake-up call that a time-out or parental pleading can’t address. Really folks, you ARE the boss, you ARE the parent and your job is to keep your child safe regardless of whatever measures are needed. Sometimes it’s a quiet whisper in their ear, sometimes it’s turning off the telly…and SOMETIMES it’s a well-directed smack on the buttocks…not enough to really hurt, but enough to get their attention…RIGHT NOW.
I agree. But there are also a lot of people who are thinking of it much more long term. I know many such people IRL and online.
There’s a very small window of time when a quick swat that doesn’t even really hurt might make an impact. Many, MANY spanking parents take it far past that.
