This sort of leads into what I’ve trained novice teachers to do when I was a teacher trainer doing inservices: there are some cultural competencies that many non-Black teachers lack. For instance, some Black children won’t simply heed the teacher because they’re in front of the room. These kids need proof that the teacher is an authority figure. Many moons ago, when schools had CP, that’s how many teachers got their respect. Now, it’s through things like being able to play the dozens, earning the respect of other respected adults in their lives, like parents and grandparents, or having street smarts or “swagger.”
LHoD, you clearly had the respect of the dad you called. It seems that the threat, and the knowledge that the kid had regarding how you had the ability to order a whuppin, might have been enough…
Late to the party, but my two cents: I don’t agree with the practice of spanking in really any circumstance. That said, there are some times when children are doing something seemingly harmless that may not be so benign.
Cue anecdotal data:
I was spanked twice when I was a kid.
#1 was when I would ceaselessly pester my grandfather to help him. On the surface, this is not at all an issue. However, my grandfather was also attached to an oxygen tank and smoked like a chimney. When I asked to help him, I would frequently do so by leaning on his oxygen tank. I was told multiple times to stop, pulled away multiple times and just would not stop. I was told it was dangerous and granddad wanted to rest and to just leave him alone. But I wouldn’t. After all, I was trying to help. Finally in a fit of exasperation, as I was walking by, my grandfather smacked me firmly on the bottom (or as firmly as he could - he didn’t have the strength to get up). It didn’t hurt at all, but did drive home the fact that I was probably irritating the shit out of him, plus he was sick and exhausted and just could not deal with me. And yes, my mom and grandmother were there, but they were trying to get stuff done.
#2 was when my sister and I decided to paint a tree in the front yard, most of the yard, the garage floor and my mom’s burgundy station wagon white. I’m sure mom could’ve chosen not to spank us, but I really don’t know that a talking to would’ve been appropriate, either. That was a pretty serious destruction of property and some of the paint had dried, so to remove it (from her car) would’ve required sanding and re-painting. I think that the spanking was probably justified. Again, it didn’t hurt, but I shrieked the entire time because I was so damn humiliated.
I’d like to think I’d never spank my children (and I intend never to do so), but I don’t judge those who employ a light smack to the butt.
Me, too. Though you can stop the statement at “adults.” Advice after all is only advice and needn’t be followed. Why limit ex ante whom you take advice from? Sure if tehir advice turns out badly you might not ask again.
We have three children. When they were young, I would resort to spanking only in very rare circumstances. I think I spanked each no more than three times total. It definitely got the message across.
Can we please drop the insulting assumption that non-spanking parents equate to non-disciplining parents? Do I know people who claim to practice “gentle discipline” who are totally ineffectual and do stuff like mildly saying, “That’s not nice” while their child pummels a toddler? I do know a couple. But I know far more parents who don’t consider spanking an acceptable, normal tool of discipline who in fact put in a lot of hard work, thought, and persistence into discipline and have well-behaved, well-adjusted children.
When my first child was little, I remember looking at the research and concluding there wasn’t a preponderance either way - I couldn’t declare that research showed spanking was a net good or bad. But since then the balance has tipped, and there really is a good scientific basis for ditching spanking.
I don’t believe swatting your kid’s butt once or twice in their life is going to cause lasting harm, but I also don’t think it’s a good tool to use deliberately. And my sense is that people who don’t believe in spanking wind up swatting their kids’ butt once or twice, while people who consider spanking a valid tool wind up using it week in and week out, and that kind of thing is exactly what all those research studies look at.
As for emotionless, “controlled” spanking, I actually find it incredibly disturbing. Yes, an angry parent runs the risk of hitting too hard, and that is a problem, but detached spanking presents a potentially twisted psychological scenario that freaks me out too. Check out how Focus on the Family suggests parents spank with “control.” It is soooo creepy.
One problem with these issues is that people can be quite resilient. They can survive even quite horrific abuse with comparatively little aftereffects, so most of the ‘didnt do me any harm’ arguments dont really show much - I know extremely successful people who have survived major sexual abuse and any number of things that noone would argue are good experiences for a child to have.
But when you look at a population, the effects start showing up.
Sure. (Not that I made this assumption, but sure.)
Can we drop the insulting assumption that spanking parents wind up using it week in and week out?
Yeah…I could not agree more. Very creepy. I’m far more inclined to use (twice, once each kid) and understand the panic-spank than the cold calculatin’ whooping. I wish we had better terms for these shades of grey, so these threads didn’t get so muddled.
Yeah, I didn’t mean that to come out so assy. Just musing that all the parents I know wind up spanking their kids more than they mean to, so maybe we should err on the side of a “just don’t” philosophy, but on reflection I realize that’s a slippery slope fallacy.
There are shades of spanking, and it can be used effectively and without physical or mental harm. There is nothing wrong with spanking. Just like there is nothing wrong with choosing not to spank.
And P.S. I have not yelled at my wonderful monkeys for 3 days now! I feel so much better, and I am sure my unborn little girl appreciates a calmer mommy too
“With those results, why wouldn’t we all start occasionally spanking our kids? Well, there’s evidence to suggest that spanking begets spanking, or worse. The same 2012 study that found that light spanking was OK also reported that parents who lightly and infrequently spanked were 50 percent more likely to spank more harshly and frequently the following year. And a study published in 2008 reported that when moms began spanking more often, they were also more likely to become physically abusive—suggesting that spanking might be a kind of gateway drug to more horrible things. So, yes, spanking may well be safe. Until it’s not.”
50% is not all. So blanket stating that all spanking parents become abusers is irrational and insulting.
Just saying. I even had a poster in this very thread accuse me of taking mother hood and my children for granted because I spank them. I was more than a little pissed off at the suggestion because it is unequivocally untrue.
It took me two years to have my twins and 5 years to have my latest, due in June. I know how precious children are, so to say that parents who spank their children don’t love or appreciate them is slanderous and false. I’d ask for an apology but I doubt I’d get one.
The best part about this is that you don’t have to smack every one of the kids to get the point across that you haven’t ruled out a physical attack as an option. Just as the US only ever used nukes two times, on one country, within weeks of each other–any other kids observing corporal punishment can readily understand they could be next and the threat of more hand-action is very credible.
As my bestest bud put it: Spanking is alright, but if you get emotional about it you have to stop.
I voted that it is acceptable, within reason. Option 1.
I have 2 kids, both now adult. The older one, the son used to cop it more than the daughter. As you get more experience as a parent you can reduce the number of instances where it’s used.
They both turned out OK, neither is a serial killer or a violent person.
My neighbor didn’t believe in hitting the kids at all. Hers turned out OK too.
You don’t get training in how to be a parent, some people are better at it than others, some need more straight forward options. Provided it’s infrequently used with the appropriate level of force, it’s a legitimate option in my opinion.
I also went through the era when Corporal Punishment was phased out in schools. For some kids getting the cane across the fingers was a massive deterrent, for others it was a badge of honour.
Disclaimer: I’m a step-parent who was only afforded seeing my step-son by his bitter mother sporadically as he grew up, so take my view on things as you will.
I was closer to beat growing up than just being spanked. My belief is there’s a lot of potential for abuse among parents who don’t have good control of themselves, inadequate desire to find alternative punishments or are more interested in shortcuts to discipline than actual logic and forethought. That said, I see no reason to swat a young child’s behind briefly and as necessary if they are running out into traffic, trying to drown the cat or swallowing a pill they found rolled under the dresser. Occasionally, that startle factor is what’s is needed to truly gain their understanding and attention, like has been demonstrated a couple of times earlier in the thread. At that age, they’re undoubtedly not going to have serious issues of violence attached to being prevented from not being electrocuted.
Most importantly for these debates though, is I agree that unless we’re talking psychopaths here, it’s wise to not demonize the other side. Again, well-functioning, contributing members of society have been raised from both factions. Moderation, as in all things, is key.
This is getting too personal, Troppus; do not insult other posters by inferring that they do not consider their children precious and are ungrateful for their presence.
To everyone: Child-rearing is a very personal and often emotional topic to discuss. If you find it is too difficult to carry on a debate about the acceptableness of spanking, please refrain from replying if you cannot do so without personal insults against those whose belief system is different from yours.
