Parents: need advice on dealing with "Suzy loves Johnny" teasing in grade three

In My Humble Opinion
21

"Is it true? No? Then why are you bothered by it? You see, all your life, people are going to pick on you and lie about you in order to make you feel bad. The worst thing you can do is cry about it in front of them, because it only makes them want to do it more. They Win. The worst thing I can do for you right now is to talk to your teacher or your Principal. Things like this happen in life. It’s sad, it’s stupid, it’s certainly mean. But people are stupid and mean. I’m not just talking about the other kids in your class, because they aren’t all bad, right? I mean all of us, even you and me, sometimes say things that hurt other people.

The best thing you can learn here kiddo, is that people do these things because they think it’s fun to make other people feel bad, and that only you can make you feel bad. I’m not telling you to ignore it, because it won’t go away. I’m not telling you to fight them, because then YOU will get in trouble. Don’t run to the teacher, don’t run away. Just think about what they’re saying, and why they might think it will hurt you. Then decide whether or not you want to be hurt by it. Then you can figure out what you really need to do about it, which may not be anything at all."

22

Two things.

This sort of teasing is wrong, but it’s also triflin. When a student (I’m second grade) comes to me with a complaint like this, I ask the following questions:
“Is it true?”
“Do you care what Billy thinks about you?”
“If Billy’s wrong about you, does that matter?”
“Why do you think Billy’s doing this?”
“How can you respond so that Billy doesn’t get what he wants?”
The conversation might go differently depending on the specific situation and on what the kid says to me, but it usually ends with my teaching them a very specific phrase that they have to memorize. I build it up a lot, and then I let fly with the phrase:
“Pffffft!”
The point is to indicate to the teaser that the teasing is trifling, and that you won’t dignify it with a response. Repeat as needed.

That said, I just remembered some wisdom from television–specifically, from Hyde on That 70s Show. When Eric was being teased, Hyde counseled him to alternate between two phrases rigidly until the teasing stopped:
“That’s cool.”
“Whatever.”
The phrases were to be said in the most bored voice possible, with no aggression or dismay. I kind of like that approach.

23

Yeah, see, it would be nice if the teachers actually took this seriously, got off their butts and investigated it by maybe observing and seeing it occur and then actually doing something about it by punishing the transgressor, which would also send a message to his little buddies (and there always are little buddies, since this kind of thing is seldom done solo) that this kind of stuff shouldn’t be tolerated. Why? Because it’s like mental abuse, in a way.

Yes, I know life’s a bitch and people do things like this, and all that, yadda, yadda, yadda, but teachers are supposed to be the adults that help keep you safe at school. By over analyzing it with the kid, the message you’re sending is one of “I don’t really believe you” or “I don’t really take you seriously”, because nothing actually gets done. Naturally, the victim really feels like a victim after that, and you can bet that that’s the last time he’s going to consult with you about the situation.

And then, in a worst case scenario, sometimes teachers wind up scratching their heads and wondering why little Johnny pulled out a knife and stabbed little Billy, because, as you know, all little Billy was doing was teasing little Johnny, right?

Remember, bullying situations usually start with insults. And if there is an outbreak of bullying at a school, it’s usually because the faculty is too damn lazy to monitor what the kids are doing.

24

I just started carrying a C cell battery in my pocket throughout middle school, just in case I had occasion to wrap my fist around it. ::shrug::

But seriously, though, “Quit being stupid” is the best comeback ever. It puts the bully on his heels. If you watch any political debate, you’ll see that they hardly ever address the attack and instead try to go on the offensive. Teach him to do that.

Perhaps “You’re acting like a first grader” would be a more age-appropriate response? I mean, no self-respecting third grader would dare act like a little first grader, would they?

25

Exactly right. It bugs me when adults offer trite advice like “Oh, don’t let it bother you.” and just leave it at that. It makes the kids feel like the parents don’t understand their torment. Even statements like “The more you let it bother you, the more they’ll continue teasing” aren’t particularly helpful.

The proper approach should be two-fold. First, offer the child concrete advice on how to avoid letting this teasing get to him or her. (Several dopers have already offered excellent recommendations in this regard.) Second, take action. Ask the teachers – or whichever adult is in charge – to step in. They need to let the tormenters know that such behavior is unacceptable. It’s easy to tell kids that they should just buck up, but when you’ve got a dozen or so children ganging up on you, day after day, such advice can be hard to remember.

I speak from personal experience. My brother and I finally met us cousins at the age of seven, after living abroad for a few years. They teased us mercilessly for our harmless friendships with girls our age. Instead of telling the cousins to knock it off, my parents and aunts blamed us for getting upset at their torment. What’s more, they all too frequently joined in the teasing.

Ultimately, the message they communicated was two-fold: (1) that deliberately tormenting another child, day in and day out, was acceptable, and (2) if you get upset, then it’s your own darned fault. It was a “blame the victim” mentality, and the adults never seemed to understand why this approach didn’t work.

26

I don’t have kids, so I probably can’t see this issue correctly, but to me I don’t understand it. Isn’t this just a common part of life every kid has to deal with?

I keep seeing the scene from the Simpsons

I don’t go for all this stuff but your kid has to learn to deal with things on his/her own eventually. I guess I just don’t understand why this is such an issue.

27

First of all, I know what you’re saying, and am not really in disagreement with you.

You don’t have to have kids, you just have to have a memory.

Did this ever happen to you? Do you remember how it felt?

If not, do you remember ever doing it to someone else? Why did you do it? What kind of a response were you hoping to elicit?

It may be a little beside the point, but fundamentally, this illustrates the problem with a lot of teachers – they can’t empathize, because they really don’t remember what it’s like to be a kid. Believe it or not, I’ve actually had teachers admit this to me – that they don’t remember their own school days! I find that unfathomable – weren’t they paying attention? Or were they just saying they didn’t remember so that they could justify not dealing with a situation in the same way their teachers dealt with it?

It’s true that you can’t fight all your kids’ battles, nor should you. And yes, they eventually have to find a way to deal with a problem on their own, but up to a certain age, they place a lot of trust and faith in adults, thinking that they can take them any problem and get a solution. Eventually, they get the wisdom to know how to deal with a situation, but this is something they have to learn.

28

It’s common, yes, but that doesn’t mean that it’s easy to deal with. Some kids are more sensitive than others, and some have to deal with more obnoxious peers or larger groups thereof. In my case, I experienced a bit of culture shock. I started out in one culture where young male-female friendships were common, and where my older cousins were nowhere around. Suddenly, I found myself thrust into a community where childhood male-female friendships were considered to be less socially acceptable, and where I was surrounded by older, larger, more boisterous cousins – not to mention grown adults who joined in the habitual jeering.

Like I said, it’s easy to say, “Oh, just deal with it. That’s life.” The problem is that many kids don’t know how to deal with it, especially if they tend to be tender-hearted. What’s more, such advice can seem awfully dismissive. As In Winnipeg said, it makes it seems as though the adults don’t take the child’s complaints seriously, and that’s a recipe for pain – maybe even trauma.

29

It depends on the KIND of teasing though. The whole, “you like so and so!” isn’t really “bullying” that demands a teacher step in. THIS is the kind of thing where the best response is to ignore it. Not every kind of teasing is exactly cruel and hateful. This is more annoying than anything else.

30

You know, I’m going to agree with you to a point. Yes, this type of teasing, on the face of it, isn’t “bullying” per se.

Can it ever become bullying? Can it have the same effect of bullying?

If it continues unabated, it sure can. If there’s a whole gang of kids doing it at the same time, it sure can.

Maybe it doesn’t demand a teacher step in at the beginning, but there could easily become a point where this is necessary.

However, how would it hurt if a teacher stepped in? I think it would effectually end it. Period. Why would that be a bad thing?

31

That’s right. An adult in authority shouldn’t have to step in every single time one child teases another. Nevertheless, if a child is obviously distressed by repeated teasing, then the adult in question should intervene. Similarly, when a group of children gangs up on another child, then adults have to take action. Children need to be taught that it’s wrong to deliberately cause distress to one of their peers just for the sheer fun of it.

32

He should be ready with a short and simple retort (whatever the third-grade equivalent of “fuck off, idiot” is) but he has to practice it beforehand. Without practice, he won’t be able to deliver his line because embarassment will overcome him first and he’ll choke on it. Find a line he’s comfortable saying and then tease him occasionally so he can practice using it reflexively.

For all the talk about anti-bullying measures and such, most kids are smart enough to know that they should harass kids out of sight and earshot of authority figures. Kids have to learn to deal with this stuff without running to an adult every time. Your friends are going to tease you sometimes, and if you can’t deal with it you’re going to have a hard time in life. Save involving the teachers for the actually harmful stuff.

33

I like the “pffffft” response.

Or what about just laughing? Boredom is hard to feign, but could nervousness, turning red, et cetera be disguised as laughter?

The only other thing I can think of is what seems to work for my son, who’s 6 – he deals with teasing by either getting really really upset and making a target of himself, or by making a goofy, dorky face that sends his peers into hysterics. He tucks in his chin and smiles, makes his eyes go really wide, and blinks slowly while saying “HUUUHHHH???” It has worked without fail the couple times I’ve seen him do it.

34

If it’s at the beginning, not-quite-bullying state, is it possible that letting the kid handle it successfully on his own would help build some confidence, whereas interrupting would prevent that?

35

In the initial stages, I think it’s best to see how the child handles it. That way, you’ll know whether further intervention is warranted.

Having said that, I don’t think that an authority figure (parent, teacher, whatever) should wait until it becomes full-out bullying before stepping in. It’s important to teach kids that such behavior is not acceptable. If we only wait until it becomes actually harmful, then we’re not really communicating that message.

Mind you, this doesn’t eliminate the need to teach the victim effective measures for deflecting the teasing and taunting. You can do both – help the victim develop healthy coping mechanisms while simultaneously letting the aggressors that such continued behavior is unacceptable.

36

I think y’all are over-thinking this. Providing this isn’t repeated harassment, a distant “bite me, fart breath” is all that is needed.

Regards,
Shodan

37

“I love Johnny too!”
“Your brain is stupid.”
“Take a jealousy pill and shut it.”
“Ok.”

Learning to deal with this stuff is a normal part of growing up, healthy even. I get that it can be difficult for socially awkward kids but if it makes you more anxious than a parachute malfunction then that’s really on you.

38

“What’s not to love about all this?” with hand gestures should establish him as cool. Practice a couple times with follow up, “still, since last time, nothing went missing”…etc.

39

Forgot to add, don’t get the teacher involved, other than maybe asking him/her to keep an eye on it for you. Otherwise it’ll just reflect badly on your kid and teach him to be a victim.

40

For those who are wondering why I made such a big deal of this, let me remind you that an autistic boy is starting already in the hole for handling social situations to begin with. For example, we had to exert a good bit of effort to get him to remember at the start of grade 2 that hugging one’s classmates isn’t an appropriate way to show affection. He had no clue why, and had to be reminded and taught the same way neurotypical kids are taught to say please & thank you. The good new is that, even if his social instinct may be diminished, he’s quite bright, and can be taught in an analytical / logical way, the same way I was taught how manners are different in Japan. Rehearsing and learning ahead have worked really well with him in dealing with more simple physical bullying.

The reason I turned to you for help is that this situation is one I did not handle well, and I didn’t have anything to offer him, so thanks to everyone who pitched in. I will be coming back and studying this thread long after it has moved off the first page.

Pedro, you seem to wonder what kind of f’ed up person would let this affect them so; allow me to elucidate. You may or may not recall how much more intense emotions are right after puberty and during adolescence, and how powerful the fear of public humiliation can be. There has been some interesting Functional MRI research that has come out showing how radical the changes in the brain can be during adolescence, and the effect of these changes on judgement and emotions . Maybe you were one of the popular kids and didn’t get to experience this. I was a fat, asthmatic geek with glasses, and precious little understanding of social mechanics. Early adolescence was a scary time, with powerful but little understood forces threatening to strike at any time out of the blue. There was a great deal of powerlessness and feeling of being helpless. Gravity and aerodymanics are child’s play in comparison. You KNOW what to do when that canopy looks like last week’s dirty laundry and is doing it’s best to swing you around the sky like a stone in a sling. You’ve been trained.

That’s the difference I want to make for my son. I want him to have an idea what to do, even if it wouldn’t occur to him in time otherwise.

Regarding involving the teacher, I have a problem with this philosophy of having kids running to the teacher everytime someone says an unkind word. I think it teaches helplessness, and teaches kids to always rely on the “authorities” to fix problems. I want my kid to learn that there will be problems he has to address himslef, at least at first. Being on the spectrum, he already has a tendency to want to be a “rules enforcer” and tattler, so encouraging this is the last thing he needs.

Regarding the comebacks offered in this thread, there seems to be two categories: clever retorts that make the ridicule fall back on the taunter, and more simple dismissive ones. As much as my sense of vindictiveness enjoys the turn-around ones, my wife had pointed out that **trusquirt **probably doesn’t have the wit yet to follow them up, so the easier dismissive ones are probably the way to go.