School bus discipline and teacher memos

In My Humble Opinion
1

My middle school kids started school yesterday. 8th grade boy and 7th grade girl ride the same bus. This a.m., they tell my wife some kids on the bus called my son “gay.” Then when he and his sister refused to respond, they made fun of them as “no-talkers.”

I’d appreciate your thoughts/input.

Tho this may sound like a minor thing, there are a couple of reasons we think otherwise. Some of these I posted before. A couple of highlights.
-Last year my son was suspended for fighting - he hit a kid who said “Your mother is a whore, etc.” Kid was known behavioral problem, and my kid and we had repeatedly complained to teachers and principal about him.
-Over the summer, at high adventure scout camp, my son was called “gay” and his tentmate threatened to rape him in his sleep.

Suffice it to say we and our kids have addressed taunting, bullying, swearing, fighting, sexual orientation, etc. in the past. What we often find very frustrating is when schools and scout organizations have claimed to value character, yet they seem to turn a blind eye to it in practice.

Last night we had to go over the school code with our kids and return it signed. So, like a couple of dopes, my wife and I sat down with our kids and spent probably a half hour going thru the 8 pages. It goes on and on about respect and character. But in our reasonably affluent community, I really think that is a lesson a lot of the kids I encounter have missed.

Bottomline, it just corked us to have this same old bullshit come up on the first day of school. We are going to be constantly in the school’s face about this. I’ll let you know how it turns out. What would you do, and what would you tell your kids?

One other thing. We got a lenghthy memo/contract from my 7th grader’s language arts teacher. We were required to go over it with our kid and sign it. Mrs. D and I are both lawyers and Mrs. D. teaches college. We get paid for our communication abilities.

And we were aghast at how poorly written this memo was. Heck, she didn’t have to send anything home. But if she chooses to, and chooses to present herself as someone stressing that she will be teaching how to communicate effectively, her handout should be coniderably more polished than that.

So, we signed it - after editing it for grammar and readability. Does that make us complete jerks? Anyone else edit and return handouts from school?

How many more days til summer vacation? :rolleyes:

2

As frustrating as it may be for you, I personally don’t think you should do anything about the teasing except be supportive of your son and provide a venting board for him when he needs it. Reassure him that just because someone says something there’s no obligation to respond. Some kids are just assholes, just like some adults, and he would benefit from learning how best to deal with it now. I think he and his sister’s silence is a good tact. Rolling his eyes, laughing at the teasers, saying “whatever” in that horribly dismissive way kids are so good at–whatever he feels comfortable doing. If any fighting is going to be done over it, let them be the ones to start it so punishments will be directed at the true culprits, rather than your son. I DON’T think you should complain/threaten/raise a fit with the school (other than maybe letting them know that it is something you’re concerned about in a general way). Tempting though it may be, you can’t fight all his battles for him, and trying to do so may only escalate the taunting and would be a disservice to your child. I was teased pretty severly as a kid too. Junior high was a miserable couple years, but that just made me a stronger person when I got to high school, IMO.

As for the edited memo–I’ve never done it (although e-mails and memos here at work often beg for such a treatment) but think it’s pretty funny that you did. Especially considering it’s a Language teacher, for god’s sake. My only concern would be that, depending on the teacher’s personality, she may be really pissed off and take it out on your daughter. I probably would have photocopied it and sent in the corrected version completely separate from something with my kid’s name on it.

3

I don’t have kids myself, and so cannot really advise you on dealing with your first issue, Dinsdale. From the way your kids reacted to the bullies (and the fact that they felt like they could talk to you about it), it seems like you and your wife have done a great job of raising them. And maybe making a big deal out of the whole thing will just make it worse for your son; I can remember coming home crying once, as a kid, because some other kid had called me a “jackass” (I was an extremely sensitive child, and back then there wasn’t an aptly-named TV show to make the epithet into a social signifier of “coolness” ;)). My grandmother happened to be visiting when I arrived home from school and tearfully relayed the incident, she shrugged: “A jackass is nothing but a donkey–what’s so bad about that?”

Huh, I thought. She’s right.

And then we had ice cream floats. :slight_smile:

As for your second issue, I practically have to sit on my hands to avoid doing the same thing on a damn near weekly basis, so I feel your pain. But I’m with belladonna, in that I wouldn’t want any repercussions from the incident to fall upon the head of your daughter. What did she think/say about what you did?

4

Maybe not complete jerks, but pretty close.

What did you hope to get out of embarrassing your daughter’s teacher at the beginning of the school year?

5

Hello no, not in my book – you’re a hero, to me.

Don’t get me wrong – I know all too much about how teachers with poor writing skills end up teaching writing; it usually has to do with underfunding, which sure ain’t the teachers’ fault.

In my job, I go over language arts textbooks-in-the-making with a fine toothed comb, looking for the tiniest of errors. Recently, we’ve started making state-specific introductions for these books, reproducing the state “standards” for language arts, and explaining how this book will help you, the student, acheive those standards. I’m not allowed to correct any errors I find in the standards. It drives me crazy. There are always several.

Maybe I’m being petty, but it just burns me to see that the kids of this country are being judged and tested by folks who don’t have the skills they say the kids must have or else. Especially since the judges so often get so righteous about it.

And don’t get me started on “No Child Left Behind”!

More on topic to the OP, so long as the teasing is name-calling and not threats, I’d encourage the kids to brush it off in whatever way works; ditto belladonna’s advice. I’d try not to let the previous experiences color your thinking about this. If it escalates, I’d think that’s the time to take action.

6

I wish to preface that I am neither a psychologist nor a teacher (yet, that is, I’m going through a masters program currently) but I have had my share of being bullied (I was 4’10" 90 lbs my freshman year in H.S.) so take this how you will.

If the school admin. protests have been unsuccessful; Is there a school counselor available? Is it possible to approach the antagonist’s (s’) parents regarding this issue? Perhaps their involvement would prove beneficial.

Another suggestion would be to approach one or more of the teachers whom your children admire and ask them to watch out for your kids during the day, teachers can be great allies and will try to protect those who come for them for help.

Other thoughts:

  • Are there ways you can think of to help your children identify situations where they are most vulnerable and teach them how to prepare for and respond to those situations (for instance, finding friends to sit with them on the bus).

If you can help your kids identify these situations they may feel more prepared to respond to them, which should also increase their confidence and self-esteem.

This site is one I came across for a report once, it may help:

http://www.ianr.unl.edu/pubs/family/nf309.htm
Another interesting anecdote:

“Instead of pushing the other side toward an agreement, you need to do the opposite. You need to draw them in the direction you want them to move. Your job is to build a golden bridge across the chasm. You need to reframe a retreat from their position as an advance toward a better solution. Take the simple example of how, as a teenager, filmmaker Steven Spielberg built a golden bridge for a tormenting bully: ‘When I was about thirteen, one local bully gave me nothing but grief all year long. He would knock me down on the grass, or hold my head in the drinking fountain, or push my face in the dirt and give me bloody noses when we had to play football in phys. ed. … This was somebody I feared. He was my nemesis. … Then, I figured, if you can’t beat him, try to get him to join you. So I said to him, “I’m trying to make a movie about fighting the Nazis, and I want you to play this war hero.” At first, he laughed in my face, but later he said yes. He was this big fourteen-year-old who looked like John Wayne. I made him the squad leader in the film, with helmet, fatigues, and backpack. After that, he became my best friend.’ Young Spielberg discovered the secret of building your adversary a golden bridge. He recognized that the bully needed to feel important. By offering the bully an alternative path to recognition, Spielberg successfully negotiated a cease-fire and turned him into a friend.”

–Getting past No, by William Ury

This may not be easy or immediately viable, but one of the lessons to share with your kids is that even bullies have feelings and desires. If your kids try to empathize, or understand, why the bully behaves that way, they may be able to find ways to satisfy those needs for the bully.

A similar tactic is to feed off the natural human trait of reciprocity. People inherently feel obligated to return even the smallest favors, and they feel bad hurting someone who has helped them in the past. I have gotten bullies to leave me alone in the past simply by paying them a compliment. Steven Spielberg complimented his bully by telling him what a great war hero he would make. But there are much simpler ways to compliment another kid. “Derek, those are really cool shoes. I wish I had a pair like that.” The bully’s first response may be a hurtful comeback like, “Yeah, I can tell your loser shoes were bought three years ago.” But he may hesitate the next time.

7

I’m ambivalent here. Are your children making friends? If not then I’d suggest that they’re not coping and you need to rescue them and school them elsewhere.

And the child who threatened rape should have been immediately expelled if he admitted it or someone else confirmed it.

8

No, no, NOOO!
Bullies like this do not stop when they are ignored, they escalate their abuse, into threats and eventual physical violence. You need to nip this in the bud, now, rather than waiting until a call comes telling you your child is in the hospital!

There is an obligation to respond; it’s on the school bus driver or monitor, and on the principal and other school officials. And your obligation as parents is to remind them that every child has a legal right to be safe at school, and it’s their job to ensure that. And that they can be held legally liable if they fail to take action to do so!

There are quite a few cases lately where students have sued school officials who have failed to protect their safety at school, and have won.

Here’s a possible idea for dealing with this. Since you mention that you are both lawyers, arrange to casually run into the School Board’s lawyer at some local bar association event. Then during your conversation, say something like this “we probably shouldn’t be talking so friendly with you – we’re likely to be adversaries in a big lawsuit soon if things don’t change at our son’s school. He’s being threatened in school, and we’ve called and written letters, and the school authorities won’t do anything about it. Luckily, we kept copies of all those letters; they’ll be important evidence in court.”

Within 24 hours the School’s attorney will have talked to the School Superintendent, who will have contacted your school’s Principal. You can expect to hear from the school very soon after that; and now they will pay attention to what you are saying.

9

My mom did this constantly when I was in 7th and 8th grade. I have only one question: Did you mention it to the relevant child? That is, was she okay with it? It wasn’t a big issue for me, but one of the teachers started to kick into retribution mode with me. Make sure your daughter isn’t taking flak for it, regardless of how right you are.

10

1.) Make a written report of the incident to the school by letter.
2.) Take my kids to school myself or find a way other than the bus.
3.) That what other kids say isn’t as important as how we respond to what they say. Do we do a little self check and see it there’s something within ourselves that needs attention? Yep.
We say, “Yeah, I’m gay and I like myself the way I am.,” or we say, “Nope not gay and I like myself the way I am.” Perhaps we even give the “consider the source” talk. The one about how some people lack character to such an extreme that they resort to trying to make others feel small so they can feel big.
Truth is that what finally worked for us, (after weeks of weekly meetings at school) was to move. New school, new start, an 8th grader tried to bully him first day and he (a 6th grader) had been taking it from the old school for so long that when he got cornered he decided that he’d had enough. One upper cut and a bloody nose to the foot taller and 25 lb heavier 8th grader at the new school and no one ever tried to bully him physically or verbally again. He went from shy and quiet to quiet confidence.

Yeah, yeah, I know fists don’t solve anything. We’d taught him that while he knew how to throw a punch, that he was to keep his hands to himself no matter what. That hitting is not the way to solve problems, but for him, one well thrown punch in front of witnesses, did solve his image problem as someone who would take it. YMMV of course.

11

I would tell my kid to ignore it at first. Like your kids did.

But if that didn’t work, I’d tell my kid to stand up to the bully. And if he has to get into fight it’s better that being perceived an abused wimp for the entire school year.

Sending a note back with corrections. Jerk Hall of Fame. It was rude and inconsiderate. What was the point? Oh yeah, maybe the teacher will proof the note next time. Feel better?

I hope the teacher isn’t that petty, or your kid may be in for a tough year.

12

I’m a bit old school, so bear with me on this.

I was the little kid in school and was picked on a lot. I fought back a lot. Like most things in life, it is not the initiator but the retaliator that gets caught. My son is very small for his age, much like I was, so I’m prepared for much the same. I learned a lot from my dad, and one of the things I learned is “Stick up for your kids”.

I have a bit of a violent background. I have learned, even as an old guy, that violence in words, can often (but not always) be enough, if you know how to use it. Your kid was suspended because he was defending his mother? Take the little guy out to the restaurant of his choice! Then follow up with a face to face meeting with the teacher and principal. It is your job to teach him what is right, not the school. Honoring your mother, even if it means a suspension, is an honorable thing. Permanent records in elementary school? Give me a break.

You corrected the teacher’s grammar? Good for you. You proved that you are grammar experts. One of the key points in communication (as lawyers, I’m surprised you don’t know this) is not eloquence or grammar, but getting your point across to the majority of the audience. For all the teacher knows, you are idiots. The fact that you understood the message, indicates clear communication. Very pompous and ridiculous. If you want to make your point, set a meeting and discuss it in person, not with stupid “I’m smarter than you” games.

When I was in military and government service, I was routinely hit on evaluations for “Lack of Tact”. I don’t have a lack of tact. My philosophy on tact is that smart people appreciate “how it is”, and don’t want a tactfull explanation. Stupid people appreciate tact, and can misconstrue it.

Correcting letter, bad idea. Teaching your kids how to conduct themselves with honor regardless of consequences, good idea, regardless of what the school thinks of it. If they have a problem with it, that is when it comes time to interpersonal discussion.

Don’t fall into the trap of, “I have a couple of degrees so I’m smart”. People in general aren’t as smart as they portray.

Stand up for your kids. Nobody else is going to. If you can’t do that, your kids don’t stand a chance. It doesn’t matter how smart you think you are.

13

Thanks everybody.
More info on both fronts. Bullying has been a big issue for this particular kid. I didn’t want to go into it in too much detail, but we were in an anti-bullying program with him. He does have some good friends and can take care of himself, but after he got suspended last year, we told him not to fight - at least not at school. We moved to this suburb 8 years ago, and were immediately stricken by the jerky behavior of the kids. Probably should have moved again …

Last night muy son pointed out the 4 kids in his yearbook. We’ll tell their names to the school, and insist that they take care of this. My son should not have to tolerate it. I would not have to put up with being called names at work, my son should not have to on the bus. This may seem like a really minor thing, but after several years of hearing horror stories about the frigging busride to and from school, I’m not going to let my kids suck it up any longer. And I have had it up to here with the “Boys will be boys” bullshit. If these 4 boys are being shits on the bus, then their parents are the ones who should have to bear the burden of driving THEM to school, not us. And I don’t care if I have to ride the buss myself, or involve the principal, schooboard, or police.

Regarding the corrections, you are right, we probably shouldn’t have done it. Fortunately, the teacher had the kids tear off only the bottom part that had our signatures. I guess we were a little bothered by what we perceived as a patronizing tone of the letter.

I do not think I am necessarily smarter than anyone else simply because I attended more years of school than them. But neither do I accept teachers as infallible. And, with my kids in 10th, 8th, and 7th grades, I’ve encountered a number of downright incompetent and lazy teachers. Certainaly not all or most, but they are out there. They have to do their job, and prove themselves. This teacher chose to make her first impression on a specific way. And she blew it. IMO, it really stinks to be sending my kid to a school where the language arts teacher either doesn’t know or doesn’t care to use minimally acceptable grammar and spelling. So this poor teacher’s memo probably just caught us on a bad day.

Oh yeah - my kid had no problem with our corrections. We’ve finally gotten fed up with simply allowing our schools to instruct us as to what we need to buy, what our kids have to put up with, etc. I expect excellence of my kids. And if these teachers claim to be expecting the same, it behooves them to show it as well.

14

http://www.viceland.com/issues/v9n7/htdocs/the_vice.php

15

What is striking about the OP is that this middle school student is not equipped to deal with an elementary school taunt. The fact that children and adolescents taunch each other is hardly a revelation. The student whose parents come to their defense in the face of such a benign taunt may face brutal treatment from their classmates.

What is abhorrent is when adults taunt, after all they are no longer children and should know better. Its unfortunate that many parents choose not to become involved in their child’s education, and is compounded when those parents that do become involved do so not to nurture and benefit the child’s education, but to shore up the adult’s ego.