I had knew a girl in college who joined the air force to get away from her family then had her career cut short by an angry ex-girlfriend (eliminating VA benefits). She ended up going to community college without aid, got accepted to the university as a transfer, but wasn’t able dependency overide (despite living on her how for almost 4 yrs and having no contact with her parents) she needed to get enough aid to be able to attend. Instead of being able to enroll as a student she ended up having to take a fulltime job (a regular job, not workstudy) with the physical plant and take advantage of the free tuition given to fulltime college employees, which entitled her to take up to 4 credits a semester with the lowest registration priority possible until she turned 24 and could quite and enroll fulltime.
Hey, that’s my line!
I readily admit that we ask a lot of our kids. Believe me, hardly a day goes by that my wife and I don’t wonder whether or not we are asking too much of our kids. Our overriding goal is that they position themselves that they can be self sufficient and as happy as they are capable of being.
Anyone can disagree, but from our perspective, we are regularly surprised at what - for lack of a more precise word - ignorant decisions our kids make about money, time management, identifying and pursuing goals. We feel if our kids make thes unnecessary errors despite our efforts, how much worse errors would they make if we slacked off. And in our view a tremendous majority of younger people are extremely poorly prepared for what it takes to be independent - not to mention successful. And think they are entitled to all manner of goods and services, without putting forth the effort those things cost.
I know a lot of people would say let them fail and learn from their mistakes. I don’t buy that. So many mistakes are just too easy to avoid, and can impose such large and longstanding harm. Incurring consumer debt for example.
Of course this isn’t the end of the world. But I’m a tad surprised at the folk who say it’s okay that she just slacked off at the end. I’m a little surprised people wouldn’t appreciate the benefit of following something through to the end. Sure, the difference between summa and magna may prove inconsequential. But if you put in so much work and are so close to achieving excellent results, isn’t there some merit to getting there instead of just settling for really good results?
I’ve never been one to live up to my potential myself, so I can’t demand as much of my kids. But it does impress me as somewhat of a missed opportunity.
CUT. THE. CORD.
Jesus Dinsdale, usually you drop the “my kids are such disappoints” post much earlier in the thread. So I thought you weren’t going to do that this time. But please stop acting this way. If this is how you complain about them on a message board, they are obviously aware that daddy things they’re losers.
I know, I know. You’re going to come back and say that’s not what you mean. But it doesn’t matter. If this is how you come across here, I can only imagine what you’re like with them and I understand why your kid wouldn’t want to talk to you about what is clearly a minor grade slip (and it is minor, don’t play the “I can’t believe none of you are as outraged as I am” card, it just makes you look more petty).
For what feels the 100th time, your kids remind me a lot of myself. Good kids, good grades, moderately lazy. That’s life. That’s how all young adults are. You harping on every… little… thing… is only going to make them resent you. If they don’t already.
You have to stop. They’re grown up. They’re good kids. They don’t you micromanaging every stupid thing that might happen to them. Cut the cord. Let them leave the nest. [Insert other growing up cliches here]. You’re done as a parent to a child. Now you need to work on treating them like the adults they are.
Dinsdale, do you want your kids, when they are 35, to feel like they can’t talk to you about it if they made a mistake or failed at something? Do you want them to have to ask their spouse to tell you that they quit a job? Do you want them to have an easier time telling their in-laws about problems they are having in their lives than they have telling you about such problems?
Suffice it to say we disagree, JB. And I think you intentionally misinterpret my comments. Not sure what I said here that you would interpret as saying “my kids are such disappoints.” I think I’ve repeatedly bragged on how proud I am over their accomplishments. My issues, which I often bring here, involve more minor things that I wonder if they could be tweaked or handled differently.
Kinda funny to talk about cutting cords - at least while the kids are still receiving (and expecting) significant financial support. Are you saying I should stop subsidizing my kids’ education? If so, why? If not, well - I don’t know your financial situation, but in my budget 10s of thousands of dollars is one hell of a thick cord. I can’t imagine the mindset that would say I should cut all cords other than keeping sending money.
Feel free to fuck up you kids however you wish, including differently from how I’ve chosen to fuck up mine. But if there is one thing being a parent has taught me it is that before I had kids of a certain age, I had no idea what the fuck was involved in being a parent in that situation. You may think that being on the kid end of that relationship provides sufficient expertise, but IMO you would be mistaken.
Where do you get this? Not sure what I posted when to give the impression there is a lack of communication between my kids and us.
Example, just one entirely ordinary discussion with my youngest when picking her and her brother up from school. Walking down the stairs at his frat:
She: (sniff) Smell’s like someone’s getting high!
Me: Hmm. I didn’t notice. (joking) How come you know what it smells like?!
She: sheesh, dad - I’ve been to parties.
Me: So, have you ever gotten high?
She: Yes.
Me: Did you like it?
She: Not really. Same way I like to drink occasionally, but not get drunk.
Conversation switched to something else.
And my eldest blats on and on about every bit of minutia going on in her life or crossing her mind. Instead of trying to get her to talk, more often we almost wish she would shut up.
Just funny the impressions people get from what is posted on message boards.
One question I think you need to seriously consider: once you quit sending money (soon, now!), how will the relationship change? At that point, if they make a choice you consider misguided, will you comment? If you are disappointed in them, are you going to tell them? I would start thinking about these things, because those relationships are going to be redefined in a major way, and you want to shape them into a form that is mutually respectful.
I think the issues here are ones of balance. Your kids don’t seem to be able to earn “good” credits to counteract any mistakes at all: I mean, if I am remembering correctly, your daughter worked hard in high school, had a job every summer, went to the college you wanted her to go to, majored in something practical, made stellar grades, and even after all that, she didn’t earn a bit of privacy, a bit of leeway, when she embarrassed herself in a pretty mild way. It seems a little over the top to me–and I tend to agree that people need to be demanding of their kids. It’s not tremendously over the top, but it’s enough to make a lot of young adults feel defeated–like 7 semesters of damn near perfect can be wiped out with one mistake.
From her being afraid to tell you about her grades when they weren’t up to the usual standard.
I don’t necessarily think that 2 Bs and a C are going to hurt her career. You need other stuff on your resume, for any field, besides a high GPA. If she were spending her time on other activities to help build her resume then that time may be will invested – job searching, working with professors, being active in clubs, going to workshops, etc. Even keeping up with friends – she’s about to graduate, she’ll need a network of peers once she starts working. One of my friends from college later helped me get a job with her company … and I wasn’t that well connected. Even if she wants to go to grad school, generally speaking (IANAT) you’re better off doing really stellar in one class/project, and getting a great letter of recommendation, than being grade-grubby and having three professors who can say nothing more than “She took my class and got an A.”
Please reread the section I quoted. You say that if you weren’t such an overbearing micromanager, your kids would fuck up even worse than they already do. But your kids are not fuck-ups. I know you like to think that you’re not blowing these minor slip-ups out of proportion, but you are. On this board and I’d guess when discussing it with your kids as well.
Look at the minor problem that sparked this thread. Your kid got a few Bs and Cs instead of her traditional As and you’re freaking out. Jesus, do you remember being a senior in college? You’re burned out on school, but the classes are mostly harder than ever. It’s very easy to slip a few percentage points in that situation. I know, I did it. And please don’t discount professors that may not be as forgiving as lower level instructors are. I finished grad school last year and some of the profs gave no guidance what-so-ever about what we could do to earn a good grade.
I said no such thing. I said treat them like adults. My mother and I split my educational costs right down the middle so my situation is a tad different from yours, but she never once asked for my grades. I would tell her sometimes, but she understood that I was an adult now and my grades were my business.
I owned my financial situation in a way your kids don’t because, IIRC, you don’t want them to work while they’re in school. Which I think is a huge mistake.
Did I say she was “afraid”? I think I said she was embarrassed - which I think is considerably different.
I think there is a tremndous difference between fucking up and being a fuck up. I’d be extremely surprised if you could find anything I posted over the past however many years in which I said any of my kids was a fuck up. I readily acknowledge that I believe they have made mistakes, and have angered, frustrated, and/or disappointed me in various situations.
When you write crap like this I really have to wonder if you are interested in an honest and intelligent discussion. Please poitn out anything I wrote in this thread that can be interpreted as me “freaking out.” Instead, I concluded my OP with So I’m kinda okay with how it turned out, but I felt kinda crappy for having to play the $ card. What do you think? A really tough situation to deal with, but I’m basicaly pleased with how my wife and I handled it. If that is freaking out in your book, I must be friggin Mother Theresa! 
Seconded. The days of micro-managing your children’s lives are over. Now it’s time to see and appreciate the adults they have grown into, including all those beautiful flaws that make us human. At this point, your goals for your children is that they live happy, healthy and full lives. The specifics are no longer yours to worry about.
The disappointment of not getting summa cum laude? That’s not your disappointment to have. You didn’t cause this problem. You will not suffer any of the (extremely unlikely) consequences. If she’s not disappointed by it, that’s because it’s not important to her. And that is perfectly fine.
By holding them to such extreme standards, especially this late in the game, you are sending them the message that they will never be good enough for you. Do you really want all the tension and problems that come with that?
Do you think that embarrassment–from going over the detail with you–taught her anything new, or made her less likely to repeat this behavior in the future?
If she were 15 or 19, I think it might. But she’s 22. Either she can motivate herself/learn from her mistakes or she can’t. And I think the evidence is that generally, she can. That’s why I wouldn’t have strong armed her into telling me when it was clear what had happened.
From just this one incident, which I understand may not be representative of your relationship as a whole, it seems as though she’s happy to share good news with you, but fearful (and yes, embarrassment is another form of fear) to share her difficulty or bad news with you. I’ll be honest, that worries me. You know I think you’re a wonderful father, but I’m concerned right now.
Thanks for your concern, but I don’t really think it is necessary. I attribute a lot of what is going on right now to the novelty of her being “on her own.” I put that in quotes because she is not employed and financially sufficient. But she’s heading in that direction. She became more independent when she moved into an apartment and stayed at school over the summer. This is just another step in the process.
I think she has the possibility for a fine life ahead of herself. But to my practical mind, it is not entirely accurate - or healthy - for someone to think they are “independent” when they are living in an apartment paid (almost) entirely by her BF, and receiving tuition for her student teaching from her parents.
She’s welcome to cut the cords whenever she wants. Like when she said she was moving in ewith BF (a fine guy BTW). We said she was an adult and we weren’t in the position to tell her what she could or could not do. But we offered the possibility of staying at home while student teaching, which would be significantly less expensive for her. I think she showed maturity in observing that we would have a better relationship as adults if we did not live in the same house.
But now I think she and her mom are trying to figure out exactly how they wish to interact. And she and BF are changing the focus towards themselves as their primary unit, rather than their respective families. It is just yet another relational change. And at some point we’ll reach an equilibrium.
All 3 of my kids are doing way better than I did. I was a fuck up, and passed on all kinds of opportunities. It just seems to me that if you have the opportunity to achieve something extraordinary, I think it is a bit of a shame not to grab it. And I don’t think encouraging that is a bad thing. I’m sure not going to continue to nag her indefinitely about this, and it does not make me love her any less.
Hell, I’ve been mediocre in just about everything I’ve done for my entire life. I wish I had taken advantage of more opportunities I passed up to do something excellent - even if those accomplishements would be relatively minor in the larger scheme of life. And I try to communicate that thype of thing to my kids.
Make sure you tell her this, in these words. It’s not always as obvious to all of us as some people seem to think it is.
My mother made me feel like I had to be perfect.
Unfortunately, this has caused rifts in our relationship that heal. She doesn’t hear about my boyfriends until they serious, because I don’t want to face her picking them apart. I only told her that I was joining Peace Corps when everything was all set, because I didn’t want to listen to her lecture me on how I’m ruining my life by not pursuing the career path she thinks is best. I never felt comfortable enough to tell her when I was suffering from depression, because I felt like such a disappointment. Heck, when I was going through low times here, I kept telling her everything was going great because I learned to be so afraid of admitting that anything is less than perfect. I had a few crying spells based on the idea that somehow my mother would be terribly disappointed in me because I’m finding it difficult to live in China. Can you imagine freaking out about that at the age of 28, doing something that is incredibly difficult and doing it well?!
I hate being this distant, but I can never feel comfortable revealing much of myself to my mother. If she was so disappointed by a simple “A-,” how could she possibly deal with all the frailties and complexities that an adult person has? After so many minor things have gone through the wringer, I’m afraid I’m too scared to expose my true self to that treatment.
I’ve been having problems at work, and finally decided a couple of weeks ago that I needed to quit. I had Mr. Neville email my parents last night to tell them this, because I couldn’t bring myself to do it. When things were going so badly at my job that I was crying over it just about every week, I told them things were fine whenever they asked about my work. I feel closer to my in-laws than I do to my parents, because I don’t feel that I can talk to my parents about anything that might have happened because I screwed up. I avoided getting treatment for depression and anxiety for many years because I was afraid to tell my parents that I might have a mental problem.
ETA: I laugh bitterly at parents who pressure their kids and freak out if the kids admit doing anything wrong, then are shocked and dismayed to be the last ones to find out what’s going on in their adult kids’ lives.