A friend of mine told me that any traffic sign (such as the above) that does not have the DOT (Dept of Transportation) sticker behind it, is not legal and they cannot enforce it legally (if enforced, if you can take them to court and they’ll be found guilty…)
Is this true ?
I also understand that the law maybe different in different parts of the country. I’d particularly like responses pertinent to Houston, TX but other places are welcome too.
The owner of a parking lot can have vehicles parked there towed away.
Fair enough - this question is for strip malls and the like.
A parking lot is generally private property and thus not constrained by Dept. of Transportation restrictions. If you park on private property and the owner doesn’t want you parked there, you can be towed.
Edit: Strip malls, restaurants and the like are all still private property. Someone owns and manages that land.
I’d also note that “Parking for XYZ Only…” is technically not a traffic sign (like a Stop or Yield sign); it’s the equivalent of a “No Trespassing” sign on private property.
I’d once heard the same story about stop signs on private property (that they aren’t enforceable), but if you get into a collision driving around in the mall lot because you blew through that “non-enforceable” stop sign, the cop who shows up to write up the accident report is still going to assign the blame to you (as is your insurance company).
I should amend that even private parking lots may have traffic laws applied to them (which is why you still have to obey stop signs, handicapped restrictions and speed limits in a strip mall parking lot) but, since it’s private property, the owner can make *additional *restrictions of their own. Parking for customers only, no trucks, compact cars only, etc.
I’ve seen cops hanging out in parking lots, enforcing the stop signs, speed limits and preventing people from cutting wildly across the lot. It may vary from state to state, location to location.
For this idea to be true, someone would have to look at the back of the sign to know if it’s enforceable. That seems ridiculous.
Got it - but does the owner need to follow DOT rules while making the signs ? That is - do the signs need to be DOT compliant and stamped ? Like - can the owner make his/her own Handicapped parking sign - or does he/she need to have a DOT approved Handicapped parking sign ?
Yes, a lot of my classmates when I was a teenager found to their dismay that they could be ticketed for cutting through a corner parking lot to avoid a stoplight. The actual charge in my hometown was “Using a private drive as a thoroughfare.”
Note that a private parking lot owner in Houston can not only have your car towed but, as an alternative, booted. There’s not a requirement on signage. You’re on private property, after all, and are parking at the sufferance of the lot owner. Generally, if you are a paying customer, you aren’t going to be towed, though.
Here’s the HPD website on parking, BTW.
FWIW, people claim all kinds of crazy thing about parking and traffic enforcement. Unless you’re talking to a lawyer who specializes in traffic violations, their free advice is worth what you paid for it.
I assume they get/need a DOT approved handicapped sign or stop sign because those are actual traffic offenses. You get a bona fide ticket from the cops for parking in a handicapped spot.
The cops aren’t involved in towing your car if you use the bank parking lot when attending a concert down the street. So not “approved” sign is required to warn people that the bank might have your car towed if you misuse their parking lot.
In regards to this same situation, say you are on private property and a cop sees you blow through a stop sign. Can they ticket you?
This isn’t about those novelty “Parking for Red Sox Fans ONLY” signs, is it? Because I’m pretty sure those aren’t intended to be taken seriously.
Missed the edit window.
Meant to say, there’s no requirement on STAMPED by TXDOT signage.
There ARE requirements on signage in general, though, which must comply with state law (see Subchapter G here).
ETA: It’s like the 51% signs you see at bars. TABC has certain requirements for signage but doesn’t have to stamp or approve signs. Property owners can make or purchase their own, and it isn’t an issue as long as those signs comply with state statute.
Seems to vary based on the state and municipality:
Having lived in and around Houston for 30 years, I believe there is some confusion going on.
In some strip malls, the shop owner does not control any of the parking spaces in the strip mall, but the owner of the strip mall may require patronizing at least one of the shops in said mall to gain the privilege of parking there.
In other shop/mall owner agreements, the shop owner has a right to reserve a certain number of places in front of his establishment for parking for his customers. Often, these will be businesses that thrive of short-time parking such as dry-cleaners. A dry-cleaner whose customers must park four stores (or more) down isn’t going to get the business as one whose customers know they will find a parking place in front of the business. Since they are only going to stay a few minutes, the business only needs 3 or 4 places to satisfy his customers. In theory, such shops pay a premium to the strip-mall owners for this right.
So, some strip mall shops have the right to restrict parking in front of their shop, while others do not, it depends on their agreement with the strip mall owner. All strip mall owners have the right to restrict parking in their lot to patrons of the businesses there.
Now, in order for a no-parking sign to be enforceable, it must meet minimum requirements. The Great Antibob has done a good job of finding cites for those.
My point is that if your friend is trying to say that a dry-cleaners “parking for dry-cleaner customers only” is invalid because it is hand-written and posted on a broomstick in a bucket of rocks, he is likely wrong. If you can see the sign and read and understand what it says, you can’t make a very strong case that you didn’t know the parking was restricted, which is what you would have to convince a Judge if you were to try to contest towing charges/impound fees/or other fees.
If my assumption that this is the situation, that your friend is trying to say you can ignore the Dry-Cleaner’s (or nail salon, or other specialty shop) sign in front of his shop, I have to wonder why? Unless you are the owner of the lot, who are you to question the shop owner? If the shop owner did not have such an agreement with his landlord, don’t you think the landlord would take care of the situation to collect more money or other shop owners would complain? If you don’t want to play by their rules, park somewhere else.
excavating (for a mind)
In my state (Michigan), it is illegal to drive across private property to circumvent a traffic control device.
Sometimes, the police will direct traffic thru a parking lot because an accident is blocking the street, but any other time it’s a ticketable offense.
In Texas, it is my understanding that this depends on the infraction. For Seat-Belt compliance, the cop can give you a ticket in any public-accessible parking lot or drive, whether it is publicly or privately owned. For other issues, such running a stop sign, exceeding posted speed limits, etc…, if the cop has permission of the lot owner, then he can write a ticket and it is enforceable. I am pretty sure DUI is treated the same way as Seat Belts; that is, the cop can write a ticket without permission of the owner.
I have no cite, but this is only what I have been told by cops and attorneys. If anyone has a cite to support or deny this understanding, I would be interested.
excavating (for a mind)
Wait - just so I understand you correctly, the dry-cleaner does not have a legal obligation to make sure her sign is compliant with DOT regulations - right ? All I have to say to the Judge is - It was not a DOT approved sign, and I understood it to be mischief by someone.