The government can change and the country will remain.
Are you talking only about electoral change or do you include revolutions?
Go ahead an elaborate on why you’re making this distinction, because I’m not sure where you’re heading.
I’m not in a position to elaborate right now as I’m busy sucking up taxpayers dollars. { I’m at work. Shhh.}
However:
I’m not trying to describe the definition of anything so much as describing my take on patriotism.
In my mind’s eye, America stands for people willingly coming together united by common*** ideals***. Among them, the rule of law rather than the rule of men, the idea that the right to govern comes from the consent of the governed, etc.
These are the kinds of things that my patriotism is fixated on.
Still not sure what it’s good for though.
Here’s what I don’t understand about patriotism. Do you consider it a general virtue (like kindness) or is it nation-specific?
For example, if I lived in a country with a corrupt government, would it be good for me to patriotic? What would patriotism mean in this context?
If I lived in Congo, would patriotism mean love of the goverment? Love of the physical land? Love of the history? Would it mean finding something admirable and concentrating on that aspect of my country?
Or is patriotism only appropriate if one lives in a free society with high ideals?
Is patriotism equally appropriate for a citizen of Congo and Canada?
If you’re asking me, the answer is “No autz, I don’t.”
What I think is so neat about the American ideal is that it is a country created by people united through ideas. Not genetic heritage, not cultural heritage, not religion. Ideas.
IMHO, this is exciting. Of course, I wouldn’t find it so exiting if I didn’t value the ideals. If I didn’t value the ideal that the authority to govern is derived from the consent of the governed I wouldn’t be pleased. I think it’s hard for many people I’ve been in contact with to realize that this is not a universally obvious ideal to adopt.
It could mean a duty to engage in whatever fitting reform activities you were able.
To me, there are aspects of patriotism that could apply to each of these areas. In the instance of physical and historical attributes of a country one wouldn’t need love them in comparison to the physical attributes of other country’s. You love the land the way that you love your family. You don’t love your parents and syblings more than other people because they are somehow better than the other people necessarily. You love them more because they are yours.
I think that admiring something is very akin to loving it. Things you admire are more likely to be the things that you love about your country.
If you’re asking about whether I think patriotism means ignoring the things about your country that you don’t like or are outright heinous, then I’d say “No, you shouldn’t.” My HO is that a citizen is obligated to his country to work for its betterment by his obligation to himself to work for his betterment.
I would have trouble feeling patriotic toward a country whose ideal I found oppressive.
OTOH, it seems that if my country, with ideals that coincided with my ideas of liberty, was oppressed, (and thus not a free society), I would probably feel patriotism even more sorely.
In short, if you don’t think your country’s ideals are high ideals you probably won’t be as patriotically disposed as if you do.
Depends on the citizens. They each have a right to patriotism and the ability be patriotic.
Some additional questions:
If you were born in a nice, egalitarian country, let’s say Switzerland, would you be just as patriotic towards that country?
Switzerland is a country with fine democratic traditions, a (generally) honorable history, and a beautiful landscape. So would you be as pro-Swiss as you presently are pro-American?
If so, then your patriotism is focused on America due to a random event (where you were born).
If not, would you be a Swiss person who deeply loves and respects the U.S.?
I think elements of our lives and personalities are due to the random events of our circumstances and enviroment. It’s possible that if I were reaised in strict Wahhabi confines I would find the ideals of Western style democracy to be horrible incidences of shirk.
The trouble is that it’s hard to be raised twice, once in each place, to test a theory like that conclusively. There is evidence that suggests people are influenced to no small degree by their enviroment, though.
Some of the criteria that various ideals are judged by aren’t universal.
The way I think of patriotism, it is largely a question of how much agreement there is between individual ideals and the ideals of the country as perceived by the individual. The more harmony between these two things, the more patriotism.
I’m still not quite sure what patriotism is good for though.