So aag3981, I guess you were wrong about how she was raised. Are you going to apologize to her parents?
From the Today Show:
Here’s an idea-don’t hire only African-American servers and don’t dress them like slaves. I don’t think anybody would have minded a costume party with antebellum dress and food. Why would anybody need to recreate the illusion of slavery?
She stays up late at night, asking herself over and over “Are black people offended by ‘nigger’? Well, ARE THEY? I can’t tell! And there’s no way to know! I’m trapped!”
I’m a pretty flexible person. All it would have taken for me to support her would be her saying
“I used that word once under stress 30 years ago. I now understand that it is offensive and should never be used, even in joking and I try never to use it” and I would have given her the benefit of the doubt. The fact that she couldn’t even do this minimum, that she blamed her husband for telling racist jokes (like she was unable to tell him that it was offensive and wrong) and that she blamed her staff for using the word among themselves (even though one of the first rules of joke telling it that you can tell a joke stereotyping a class or group only if everyone present belong to the group and you are sure that others present will not be offended) demonstrates to me that she lacks even a minimal sense of basic decorum.
Gosh, whatever will we do without your valuable contributions to this thread?
Nobody took the bait anyway. Starting to respect you folks some.
Besides, rereading the post I was answering,…I don’t think the poster was talking about me anyway. And, without that, there is no point.
About Paula Deens’ testimony of having used the “N” word only once in her lifetime, do I buy it, do I believe it? In a word, no. Here’s why…
There was that remark about a plantation-styled, pre/post civil war era wedding, remember that? While the “N-word” never came up explicitly, the word “monkey”, as a place-holder, did. To me, if you could use that word you might as well HAVE said the n-word. Which is more offensive calling someone the “N-bomb” or calling someone a primate?
I rest my case.
Moving along, I never had any particular qualms about Paula Deen before this debacle. I guess I never really gave her presence much of a thought. Like other celebrities, out of sight is truly out of mind. I knew she was a cook-extraordinaire and that’s pretty much the period at the end of the sentence. Didn’t really care to read anything more about her life.
I think what got Deen in trouble the most, beyond her rather poor choice of words, was her cavalier/non-chalant attitude toward the whole situation. While she sobbed enough to put both Charm and Kleenex out of business, don’t really think there was a watery eye out in the court-room when she gave her testimony. She mentioned how she was held at gun-point thirty years ago by a “black man”. She mentioned she blurted out the “N-word” under duress. My thing, out of ALL the terrible/nasty/despicable things you can call a man, especially a black man, why that? While I don’t condone the use of profanity I think “A-hole” would have been a preferable term than the term she decided to use.
If the assailant had been white, would she have called him/her a “cracker?” Just some food for thought.
I just didn’t buy Deens’ artificial flavor apology. I also don’t buy the fact that she didn’t know that racist jokes would be offensive to people of color. I believe it’s HIGHLY unlikely for a white woman who is 66 years old, who grew up in the Deep South (see, Georgia) during the middle AND peak years of the Civil Rights movement to have ONLY used that word once in the entire catalog of her life; please.
To be fair, I do not think her glass house should come to absolute ruin all around her. I do think forgiveness should be given, even if TRUE forgiveness is never sought on her part. Basically, her sponsors are deserting her now because it would be a PR nightmare to stick with an alleged bigot. It’s a move motivated more by the “almighty” dollar, rather than genuine concern for the lives of those affected by Deens’ mistreatment.
I want to touch briefly on the audience, which would be those reading my post. If you find yourself defending in ANY way what Deen said either recently or years ago, what does that say about your heart condition? I have heard some people say “well, rappers use the N-word, why can’t she?” Here’s my opinion: BOTH are wrong. The word “nigger” should NEVER be used, under ANY circumstance.
Likening her remarks to the diatribes of a rapper is also a pretty crafty and cagey way of excusing and supporting another person’s bigotry. I think Whites and Blacks have to come to a place of trust and understanding before they can truly come together as people.
Blacks have got to STOP using the race-card whenever it is convenient to do so. That blurs the line between authentic and fabricated cases of racism. It’s the “boy who cried wolf” syndrome. When there is REALLY a case to “cry” about, who will believe you when the card had been tossed around so much? Blacks have also got understand that there IS pride in their culture. As a group, blacks have to abandon the “you owe me” mentality. As a group many have to STOP looking for a hand-out and give a hand-up. As an African-American male I truly believe that blacks do NOT support each other nearly as well as other people of color (Hispanics and Asians, just to toss two names out). There is this self-hatred that NEEDS to be overcome.
Whites, in my humble opinion, have got to realize that, yes, racism is alive and well. This month marks the 49th year that LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act into law. By and large, many Whites feel that the passage of that legislation, coupled with the end of slavery and the ushering in of the first Black united States President, presto, means the end of bigotry/racism. How long did slavery exists? How long has racism existed, do you really believe that THREE acts/events are ALL that’s needed to reverse/erase the effects of a mindset it took centuries to build in the first place? Pause, let that marinate, and think on that.
While at some point during the course of history, virtually every group of people have had their hands in the “slavery jar”, it was Whites who benefited the MOST from that institution. I am not pointing an accusatory finger but it is easy to say “just get over it” when, generally, your way of life has not been affected too much by racism. Whites, for the most part, do not think about being white unless it’s in response to a very rare scenario of being the only white person in the room.
Whites see themselves promoted HEAVILY on television/magazines/bill-boards, usually in a positive light. Subconsciously, that services a person’s self-esteem. On the flip side, it can lead to a superiority complex.
Someone once said that the reason there is so much mistrust for blacks, amongst the white community, is because so many well-meaning whites have been “burned” in the past. Really? That’s very interesting. So, then, roughly 14% of the U.S. population has caused you TOTAL unrest? What, then, do you say to blacks when they say the same thing against, roughly, 65% of that SAME population?
Who, then, would you say holds the stronger argument on having justifiable mistrust?
Forgiveness, on both sides, is key.
Actually, I don’t think this is about forgiveness, or the condition of one’s heart. This is purely business. Did Paula Deen and Bubba Hiers create or allow a hostile work environment? And are businesses obliged to maintain ties to a spokesperson or employee who suddenly becomes very controversial for any reason, especially if the controversy is the result of the spokesperson/employee’s own sworn testimony? Whether Paula and Bubba win or lose the lawsuit, none of the companies that have severed ties with Deen have done anything unreasonable, IMHO.
“Actually, I don’t think this is about forgiveness, or the condition of one’s heart. This is purely business. Did Paula Deen and Bubba Hiers create or allow a hostile work environment? And are businesses obliged to maintain ties to a spokesperson or employee who suddenly becomes very controversial for any reason, especially if the controversy is the result of the spokesperson/employee’s own sworn testimony? Whether Paula and Bubba win or lose the lawsuit, none of the companies that have severed ties with Deen have done anything unreasonable, IMHO.”
I will just say if you looked at my post I did mention it was an economical move, basically saying that many of her sponsors cut ties with her because it would be bad for business. Those ties were motivated by money rather than some other-worldly affection for those affected by Deen and, by extension, her brother.
As far as forgiveness goes, if you looked closer, I was talking about the state of black and white americans - moreorless - in this day and age. I dedicated a portion of my post to just talking about my perspective on the distrust between the two communities. It wasn’t about Deen anymore. It was just my “two cents” on current affairs. To which, you would be hard-pressed to find ANYONE who doesn’t have an angle or a self-serving justification, that can disagree.
Now, do I believe Deen created a hostile work environment? Let me ask you this, do you believe it’s possible, consciously or unconsciously, to not let bigoted/prejudicial behavior shape the landscape of an empire you have poured your heart and soul into?
I think it is entirely possible to keep hidden your true feelings and motivations working in an arena where you are just “going through the motions”. You have less of a vested interest. So, therefore, more of your emotions are reigned in. When, however, you are working (or controlling) an environment that you absolutely, positively love, the water becomes a little murkier.
Many people out there will say “well, she did hire black staff.” I will simply say to that, so? Your point is? That’s almost as classic as saying “I am not bigoted because I have black friends.” The very fact that a person has to make that correlation is their undoing.
I dare not make bones about the “help” that she hired. It’s her restaurant and she’s entitled to hire whomever she wants. But, isn’t it reasonable to assume that a person with a penchant for “letting it rip” in the heat of the moment and a racist upbringing, sprinkle her business with, ahem, “diversity” so to not be called a bigot or a racist?
In closing, I DO think she and her brother fostered an uneasy working environment. I just don’t think it’s possible for two people to have grown up with the views they did, whether they are less concentrated now or not, to have kept everything “all love.” I certainly don’t think it’s possible when you toss in the fact that it wasn’t an employee to employee relationship. But, rather, a boss-employee one (off a business she owned).
I was raised to believe that drugs were bad. Doesn’t mean I haven’t done them. I know if I speed, I risk a traffic ticket, but sometimes I do. I don’t know how, specifically, Paula Deen was raised or what she was actually taught by her parent. I know that the area and time framed she was raised in, blacks were considered and treated inferior. I’m sure that she heard it with some regularity growing up and that even though it carried some offense to it even then, it was of common use. The fact that she has not been observed using it and doesn’t testify that she used it in 30 years would support that she makes an effort to live like she states her views are.
Well considering as how black people casually use the word when speaking to each other, I would say there is a reasonable amount of doubt that they are offended by the world. They are offended by some instances where the word is used. Also, I don’t believe she expressly said she would hire all black people. It was implied that she would from her description of the restaurant that she wanted to imitate. She was never going to hire anyone for an antebellun style wedding because it was a brief mention of something that would be neat to do. Not something she was ever going to do.
Watch her You Tube videos. That’s what she said. She didn’t blame her husband for telling racist jokes, she state that they didn’t offend her. Also, by your own “joke telling” rule, she should be fine. No one that was in that group where those jokes were told were offended. People that heard of the jokes being told after the fact are being offended. No one even knows the jokes that were actually told. Just that jokes offending a particular group, multiple particular groups have been told. People don’t even know what they are being offended by. Sensitive much?
I saw that this thread was 8 pages long and figured there had to be some giant racist in here making apologies for Paula Deen. Wasn’t wrong.
That’s quite a bold hypothesis. You may be correct, but I think that you need some field experiments to test this theory.
Actually, I’ve come to the conclusion that it’s Paula herself. So you’re still right.
I agree. My issue is that all these decisions are being made based on very one sided reports of the situation. What if the lawsuit is just an attempt to get money from Paula and her brother and they don’t harbor hostile working conditions. The public outlash and media reports have led to endorsements being cut. All as a result of half truths provided by the plaintiff and passed by the media.
So you’re fine with swapping racist jokes as long as there’s no darkies around who might be offended?
Wrong is wrong. It’s almost like blaming the victim(s) for what transpired, like “you had It coming.” While I did say it was extremely hard not to assume a white, southerner held racists views during the harshest parts of the Civil Rights movement, not EVERYONE in the Deep South during that time was a raging bigot. Some people followed their moral compass. Some people knew, inherently, that being a bigot is wrong.
You can almost be assured how she was raised by what came out of her mouth. Our greatest influence, before we launch out into the word, is via our parents. Their words, gestures, attitudes and overall philosophy on life. Many lose their way. But, eventually, we come back to what we “know.” It takes either a lot of whacks upside the head. Or, in some instances, GREAT education to remove the shards of ugliness from a person’s psyche.
It’s really quite disgusting when people pass the buck on to other groups and look for a justification for rude behavior. Because some black person use the word “nigger”, how does that make it right for others to do so? Yes, I understand the “claiming the word as our own” philosophy but that still doesn’t excuse the missile being launched when a white person says it. Chances are, it isn’t a term of endearment but, rather, a very real insult. A very real and calculated evil intention.
While we can’t go off and lug everyone around whoever said an inappropriate word to “debtors” prison. We can in fact and, rightfully so, confront them of bad behavior. Even if that means financially. That’s part of the reason we have the Civil court.
Do I think the media has mis-represented Deen? Sure. But, please, don’t make this about one act of transgression thirty years ago. It’s about the attitude and not the offense. She acted as if she DIDN’T know using the word “nigger” was offensive. There’s not a person as old as she is, without a mental illness of some sort, that is walking the earth and not buried underneath it, whom claim ignorance on one of the trinity taboo subject areas (race/religion/politics).
She’s a celebrity and so she has and will continue to suck up a LOT of air-time. But, is that really surprising? When the O.J. case was happening, affectionately named the “Trial of the Century” was everyone up in arms about spin doctors being at work? Did people think only half-truths came out about Simpson’s horrid relationship with his ex-wife? No, many people assumed that a rich black man killed a relatively unknown white woman.
I don’t think the media is being anymore unfair to her than they would be to anyone else in her position. She isn’t being maligned. What is being reported, thus far, is TRUE.
… Like a good little nigger should?
No. “Darkies”, latino, asian, women and white folk, all present. These are jokes among friends. The minority portion of the group have no fear of me oppressing them. Just like I don’t have any worries they’ll oppress me as a woman. Obviously, I wouldn’t tell jokes like this around people I didn’t know or thought it might offend. However, Paula didn’t even tell racist jokes, she told some off colored jokes, usually about women per her testimony. She just didn’t jump down someone else throat if THEY say those jokes.