So, one fucking nutcase killed a film director. What about all the muslims currently living in your home country who haven’t killed anyone for political reasons recently?
As for quoting Qadhafi as some sort of spokesperson for all of Islam, that’s about a clear an indication as there could possibly be that you haven’t aclue what you are talking about.
I am. I was raised Catholic, no longer practicing. And I see no problem with this whatsoever, as long as these groups have permission from the local priests and bishops.
I am asking because there seems to be a lot of Sturm und Drang here, over what the Catholics do with their churches. It would be interesting if we find out that the biggest poo flingers here are not Catholic, and so have no right to dictate church policy or church charity.
I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church, does that count? 
(Protestant, as I think I said earlier. But more sympathetic to Catholics than to … well … hysterical shrieking anti-Muslim dingbats.)
I raise my hand up as a catholic.
I think I’d feel more respect if the whole thing had been framed as…
“I hate them and want to kill them all, where ever I find them. I hate them and I don’t need a reason. They’re different and that’s good enough.”
At least that would have had a bit of honesty to it.
Good enough.
Good enough.
Who is it yelling Oh my god they’re gonna kill us all we’re gonna die? None of us yellow cowards, that’s for sure. For a pack of yellow bellies we seem remarkably unafraid. I’ll stop now because you’re starting to piss me off, and I get stupid when I’m “annoyed”.
Same here.
(Waves at Guin)
I was raised Roman Catholic (I like to think I’m getting better). It is also my understanding that the disposition of the physical assets of any particular parish is within the purview of the Bishop or Archbishop of the diocese in which the parish is located, and thaat while the concerns of the parishioners may be noted, the decision-making power lies with the ecclesiastical authorities and is not subject to review or petition from below.
I also understand that this is not generally the case with Protestant denominations. It should be noted that my understandings are pretty much United States-centric.
One factual question which has not been addressed in this thread is whether the tabernacle, or any other vessel containing a consecrated Host remains in the buildings under discussion.
I won’t add anything to what people have said about Rune or LonesomePolecat here, there wouldn’t be any point. Now I see that gum has entered the fold, as I expected. I will simply link to [thread=299927]this thread[/thread] by Angua, which starts with an interesting discussion about her particular brand of liberal Islam, until the appearance of gum who simply refuses to accept, even after being given several explanations by many posters, that it’s possible to be both Muslim and liberal. She just doesn’t want to recognize it.
Look, I know there are more Muslims in Europe than before, and I know that some of them are of the more intolerant variety, but blatantly refusing to acknowledge that some Muslims favour a Western-style liberal democracy isn’t going to solve this problem, if problem there is.
gum, what do you suggest we do? You seem to think that the presence of Muslims in Western countries is a problem, and you refuse to consider the possibility that maybe the solution to this problem is the rise of liberal Islam, because, hey, “liberal Islam” is an oxymoron, all Muslims want to create a worldwide theocracy where women and non-Muslims are second-class citizens and where a medieval legal system is the law of the land. So what is your suggestion?
Oh, severus, you’re just not taking this threat SERIOUSLY enough! You better learn how to say “dhimmi” in French!
I’ve been here nearly three months now and the only aggression I’ve seen or trouble of any sort was from white English tourists and a big group of drunken Dutch idiots rioting in Leidseplein the other night after Ajax won the cup.
I’m sure there are tensions between hard core factions of right wingers and Muslim fundis as there are in most places now-a-days it seems.
I actually talked to a Dutch Muslim the other day. He got drunk and stoned with me in a coffeeshop. Arrived 5 years ago from Indonesia and was a strong practicing Muslim on arrival. Now he like his smoke and drink and is engaged to a nice Dutch girl and realises that there’s more to life that just living by rules in a very old book. He’s not at all angry at how the Dutch system has assimilated and changed him 
If a devout Christian friend/acquaintance of mine needed a place to stay, and I happened to have a room free but it was my ritual room, you can bet I would be covering up my altar and whatnot. If s/he wanted trappings of Christianity around her/him, I would lend 'em my trusty King James, dig up the rosary I think I have somewhere, and see about acquiring whatever else was needed. It’s called charity, hospitality, respect, and love. If all the teachings of Jesus were to be distilled into one word, that’s it, isn’t it? Love.
Speaking of my King James, I happen to have it open on my knee right now because I would like to suggest that Matthew 15:16-20 is quite relevant here, especially 15:18: “But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.”
But then, what do I know. I’m just an ignorant heathen. It’s amazing I’m able to read the book instead of trying to eat it.
As for “**eing opposed to a very conservative, homophobic, xenophobic, female-oppressing regime/religion …” that could describe fundamentalists from many faiths, including the one by which I am surrounded on a daily basis.
This is to all those who, in this thread, are preaching hatred, who want to deny simple generosity or charity, and then have the gall to hide it in some “outrage” over the idea that the filthy infidels are befouling the holy mother church (a church they probably don’t even belong to):
But they are heathens…
It is funny to quote him as even a spokesman of Islam, considering how impious he is considered.
But although I may regret this, I want to say one thing in a way a defense of these two who are bigotted against Muslims, the quotations from Muhammed are good, but sadly do not reflect a current attitude among many Muslims that gets them upset if Christians come near or in Mosques.
But then it is clear that this Rune and this Gum think in the same way as those hateful ones. They deserve each other. It is sad that they all make problems for normal people.
And I want to say that saying that the Muslims do not worship the same God as the Christians is very stupid thing to say. Not only are the words the same between Christian and Muslim Arabs, but anyone who is not bigotted can see the strong similarities in all detials. It makes sense to say, if you are not Muslim, that Muslims worship God wrongly, that they are mistaken, wrong in their belief and even not as good as Christians in their worship and such things. This is understandable opinion in a way. To say it is not the same God and to call them heathens, this is only hatred.
A gazillion threads about the evils of Christianity (including two in GD just now about leaving the evil idol worshipping cult of Catholics) and religion in general (and some guy calling all religious people idiots – which apparently according to a good many dopers is something that needs to be said) and a zillion threads about some Chick guy – and he’s just one man. Yet a single thread on Islam never fail to release a torrent of knee-jerk self-righteous indignation and the usual line of racist/islamphobic/Nazists condemnations. So predicable, it’s like sticking your foot in an anthill. Must feel good to be a card carrying member of the moral superior majority. But I seriously doubt you do anybody, least of all Muslims or Islam, any favour by erecting this special taboo. And funny how the thread was more about the Catholic and average Belgian response than about anything to do with what the Muslims do. Yet nobody seems so eager to call me on my obvious Nazi-like racist attitudes towards Belgians and my catholicphobia. Not that I expect you to alter your dearly, if too easy, held convictions, but I actually don’t mind Islam or Muslims in general (though I do think the islamphobic is kinda cool), and I probably have more Muslim friends (yeah, yeah I know), colleagues and family members than most of you yanks in this thread. I do have a problem with Islam and those that practise it when it is used to further things I dislike and disagree with.
I can seldom muster the to go past page one of any thread but dressed in a shiny polo-shirt and armed with a rolled up newspaper I’ll just give it this last try with those posts directed to me.
Damn ants. They crawl in everywhere. Feel the power of my newspaper: WUP!
Because a weekend trip to Amsterdam including a daring visit to a red-light district and a coffee bar, is the best kind of evidence that can be had.
I haven’t spoken of any islamification. However those numbers are suspect at least when it comes to Denmark, since it’s against the law (as it is in many other European countries) to make statistics on people’s religion. Those numbers are at best somebody’s wild ass guess.
And do you live in one of the areas with a high concentration of north African immigrants? Ayaan Hirsi Ali of course would say there’s a bit of aggression. But of course she’s just one person too. And the gays in Amsterdam, as I have linked to once before, being set upon are of course also just one group. Theo van Gogh doesn’t say anything anymore, but his son is apparently harassed by gangs sympathising with his fathers murderer. etc. All of which doesn’t mean Islam is evil or Holland is turning into a Kalifat. But denying any trouble with assimilating Islam and Muslim immigrants, because you yourself hasn’t witness or felt any isn’t particular helpsome or healthy. There are problems with integration, to deny that is simply embracing ignorance, and closing your eyes to everything you haven’t personally witnessed or heard, or tarring everybody bringing up problems as Nazis this and that and what not, is only going to make a festering wound out of a problem that are best dealt with, with air and debate.
Hooray for Google. Now can you tweak your Google-magic to make it conjure some actual recent examples from real-life?
ouch! This ant bites! WAP!
Out of time! Now time for preview! I’m off for my vacation. You all, be happy in your courageous round of mutual back-clapping!
Oh, backpedaling now, are you? Because you started off your OP with a mouthful of bile about how the “heathen” Muslims were allegedly committing “insult, sacrilege, and desecration” and should go “back to hell”:
You were even too dumb to realize that moving or covering Christian images is a usual practice when a non-Christian group uses church space, even with permission from the church authorities. And you had the gall to tell Anne Neville that you didn’t think her Jewish congregation should do such things:
Now that you’ve had your ignorance pointed out to you, you try to cover your ass with a tu quoque about how Christian-bashing threads are just as bad as Muslim-bashing ones, and how anyway you were really just bashing the Belgians. Nice try, moron, but it didn’t work.
Good riddance, you ignorant hypocrite. Hope you get sunburn.
oh my. Bad words in the pit. What’s the world coming to?!
Oh you mean this part. “if it’s done with care and consideration it’s not so bad”
No I’m actually pointing the hypocrisy (as you like) underlying such a double standard.
More ants! BAF!
I do not know about your justifications but your own words condemned you. Maybe there is a lot of attacking of Christians here, I do not know, but this does not excuse your nasty ignorance - even if you try to call it knee jerk.
I seriously doubt you are doing any thing other than making excuses now you have found yourself wrong, having made lies and I do not think you have one care about Muslims or Islam, other than your fear and hatred.
It is only funny that you think this excuse will convince any one but your racist Dutch friend.
I do not. I live in an apartment in white upper middle class heaven. It’s all very nice and swanky. I do work in an industrial area and have traveled around as much as I can. I would never suggest I’m very familiar with the city or country. I was being flippant with respect to gum and the whole world falling apart bollocks that she seems to love.
I’ve heard the same shit here as I’ve heard in Ireland(were I do live in a working class area that is right beside the largest concentration of Muslims in the country) but I just don’t see it. Yes, there are fucking idiotic ignorant fools who want to change the country they are in to a version of Saudi so they can bring everyone to their level of capitulation to a pack of misogynist autocratic dangerous religious freaks but I don’t see it happening. What I do see is right wing groups like the BNP in the UK using this fear to gain in influence and control of local and national politics. The growth of far right wing groups is way more dangerous that some mental Muslims IMO.
In your case, it’s come to lies and evasions in the effort to pretend (in the face of quite obvious documentary evidence) that your “bad words” were directed at Belgian Christians rather than at Muslims.
Yeah, that’s the part that you grudgingly mustered up when it finally dawned on you that you might actually be insulting Jews as well as Muslims with your uninformed diatribes about how non-Christians using church space shouldn’t cover Christian images. Oopsie, huh?
“oh my. Bad words in the pit. What’s the world coming to?!” :rolleyes:
Say, Rune, aren’t you supposed to be “off for your vacation” now? Please, don’t feel obligated to shorten your trip just to keep us company here.
(Always kind of funny to see a smacked-down poster offering a jaunty farewell and then keeping on posting, unable to tear themselves away.)