Will she have a car payment? Auto and health insurance? What would you say if she said “Dad, I need $250 bucks for a legitimate emergency.” Or “Dad, can I have $250 bucks to go to Mazatlan?” What kind of student aid did she qualify for? Taking 15 credits and working 20 hrs a week is a doddle. Particularly if she works on campus. On the other hand, don’t underestimate how advantageous it can be to have a little extra cash while going to college.
Yes, she should be expected to cover some or all of her expenses. It really does make a difference after college. College is a time to learn many things, including how to live on your own and manage your money. If you get thrown out into the job market without these skills it’s really hard to adjust to paying for everything when you are used to paying for nothing. If you are used to living on a budget in college you don’t get used to a standard of living you cannot support on an entry-level job.
I think you have the best idea in mind. Support her, but to a point. Let her decide how to cover the rest. I had friends work full time in college because they wanted more money, and others who worked a few hours a week and lived on ramen. It’s a good way to learn what your priorites are.
I would just suggest to be flexible if an opportunity like a great internship or something comes along. My parents gave me a little extra my second semster senior year so I could devote my time to a senior project.
Have you discussed with her your view that she is “coasting”? My parents’ philosophy, which they never hesitated to express to me throughout the time I was growing up, was “if you work your butt off to get the grades, we will do everything we can to help you scrounge up the money to go t the best school that will accept you.” (Mom, at least, put her extremely limited money where her mouth was; Dad less so, although that’s been the subject of multiple rounds of litigation in Family Court and may someday be the subject of a looooong and heartfelt Pit rant.)
The basic premise: if you get A’s, which we know you can do if you put forth the effort, we’ll help you out financially to the best of our ability. (This was based on the premise that I would be a full-time student for the duration.) If you are a slacker, you are more or less on your own. In an ideal universe, we’d just write you a check for whatever your grants (and some loans) don’t cover, but financial realities being what they are, you’ll probably have to work a bit, too. That’s not necessarily a bad thing; it shows post-college employers that you can balance responsibilities. This only applies to the basics, of course; if you want fancy vacations, etc., you will have to find some way to make up the difference.
The result: I always knew what was expected of me, and I did well academically AND earned some cash, plus gained some valuable skills at my work/study job which helped me get jobs after college. (Having gone to school in NYC, though, a car would have been very silly in any event.) I think any reasonable person understands that he/she shouldn’t expect something for nothing.
Also keep in mind that on-campus jobs a) are generally more interesting, especially if you find one that relates to your major; and b) tend to come with bosses who are much more flexible about things like not scheduling you to work during classes and giving you time to study for finals.
Because there is more to living than understanding macroeconomics and applied differential equations. There is the whole “time management” and “priority management” and so on and so forth. All jobs will teach a person about responsibility, and not having an obvious or large safety net will make such lessons all the more important (the chance of failure being a strong selective agent for paying attention). I don’t suggest the child be abandoned to the streets, but I think it is preposterous to give a child everything one can possibly give.
I think this is incredibly wrong. Interacting in the world at large requires more knowledge than one gets in college classes. All jobs will contribute in some way to this. Even Wal-Mart.
I disagree entirely. It is the CHILD’S goal to get the most out of college; after all, that is the only person who stands to directly benefit from it. Perhaps working at Wal-Mart will show her how much it sucks to not keep on your education when given any opportunity to.
I’m sorry, perhaps my 3.9 GPA obtained while working over 40 hours a week taints my perspective. I am fairly sure that a kid in college can manage just fine on 20 hours a week of work with some parental assistance. And who knows what mom and dad should pay for? If they can contribute some, I agree they should, but it should never be so much that the kid can simply do whatever they want knowing full well there will be no consequences.
There is plenty to learn from everything you do, ever. It would be nice for a kid to get to work at something in her field through school, sure. I do not think this should be a primary concern for a parent. That is up to the child.
I am sorry you feel this way, because I also did that. The only thing I didn’t pay for at that age was rent and electricity. When I was old enough to work, I worked, as much as the state would let me.
I do not agree with your characterization of “hard”. I do not think the ability to allow a child to freeload while going through school demands that one let a child freeload while going through school. I see no problem with helping them as the parent sees fit, but that is an issue between the parent and the child. I would love to spoil any child I had rotten; if I felt I could raise a responsible person by doing so I probably would, too. It has not been my experience that silver spoons make for decent people. A safety net does not a jobless student make, nor should it IMO.
It really depends on how smart and motivated she is and what your goals for her are. I think in practical terms you and she need to come to some concrete and realistic understanding about what her abilities are relative to her goals and how to achieve them.
Few things are more frustrating that funding a child through college only to have them flame out prior to graduation and quit. This can cause hard feelings for decades on both sides. In many non-technical specialities getting the degree is often what employers look for as indicators of seriousness and maturity. In the long run if you can get her degreed, she will be able to get better jobs and be less of a potential financial burden beyond college.
A college degree will open doors and a college education, if seriously pursued will give you tools to perform with, but it’s all going to be a huge waste of time if she is not really committed to the concept. If she’s not a focused, high energy type, but you still want to get her “degreed”, being flexible on the amount of work required is probably going to be a necessity.
Is he planning on working or going to school in the summer?
20 hours a week and full time school can be a bit much. I worked a full time gig in the summer and never took summer school. I had plenty saved up for the school year.
I actually went to SWT and even back then there were plenty of oppurtunities for 10-15 hour a week jobs. With the outlet mall and the growth of the city since then, there should really be a lot now.
One thing you do not want to keep her from is the social aspect of college. She will need time to hang/party with her friends if she really is going to get as much out of school as possible.
Encourage her to look into financial aid. This not only benefits you, but it will make her more independent and more willing to take the initiative to do well in school. I know that the 3.0 GPA minimum that I had to maintain for my full scholarship was a BIG motivation to do well in my classes.
When I was in college, I had a state-sponsored scholarship that paid for tuition and fees, and then a couple of smaller scholarships that provided spendin’ money. My father paid for dorm/rent fees since he didn’t have to pay for anything else. But everything else was my responsibility. And I also worked my last two years. All in all, I think you are being very fair and generous.
bnorton, I appreciate your adding the second post which provided context.
My parents paid for everything and gave me spending money for each month. Not a lot, mind you, because they weren’t wealthy. But education was very important to them and they wanted to support me in that. Similarly, they discouraged me from working too much in the summers, because they thought I pushed myself hard all year and should get a break. For my part, I got very good grades and was very serious about school. I worked on campus tuturoing for extra spending money, but it was never more than 12 hours a week.
My parents also sent me extra money during my first few years of graduate school because they valued that so much. By the standards of this thread I was spoiled, but that’s how it was in my family. My dad’s a professor and my sister and mom are teachers. We’ve got two doctorates, three masters, and four bachelors degrees between us–we’re education geeks.
Call me an outlier–although this is the norm where I went to school. I realize this varies. My boss’ daughter started at a state school up the road this year and her hallmates sneer at her for being “rich” because she doesn’t have to work. Her mom was stunned–it never occurred to them to have her work; they certainly didn’t expect their older daughter to work while at U-M, and no one thought that was odd here. So what the norm is at yoru daughter’s school may affect her experience.
I will say, not from personal experience but from having had additional time on college campuses (and read some research on this), I think 20 hours a week is a lot. Doable? Sure, just as many dopers have alleged. But I think it will cut into some of her opportunities to have fun, to meet people, to go to lectures, to study.
If I were in your shoes I would indeed require her to demonstrate more commitment before you slap down a lot of money. But I’d offer to her that I’d revisit the arrangment after a semester. If she demonstrates that she’s trying to get something valuable out of college, you’ll pay in more.
If you can afford it, I might add basic food to the list of things on your side of the equation. Not dinner out every night, but a reasonable food budget. And I think it reasonable to insist that the deal is only in place if she takes a full load of classes.
But I wouldn’t say that your original proposal was too generous or too stingy. It seemed normal and reasonable. To me. Based on my experiences.
I’m sorry, if she still wants to be a kid and can’t hack working then she shouldn’t be in school, any degree she will pursue will involve a lot of work in itself, and “thankless” work, too, as it will be paid in educational credits instead of the instant gratification of dollars. Maybe she needs time off. College isn’t a vacation, and working 20 hours a week doesn’t stop one from having plenty of free time.
If she wants a theme park I’m sure those are available. If she wants to learn how to drink irresponsibly, work responsibly, and learn in the mean time then college without coddling is the way to go. I think your plan is more than fair, and certainly reasonable. I am quite envious myself.
My parents had an arrangement with all five kids, they would cover one half of the cost of an undergraduate degree (room, board, tuition, books, fees). The other half was the responsibility of the child, through scholarships, student loans, grants, whatever. They would give a “family loan” if the student did not have the moola or scholarships or grants or loans to pay their half during the undergrad years, but that was to be paid back over a reasonable amount of time. My three older sisters took the “family loan” option, along with some scholarship help, so my parents were REALLY happy I caught a full government ride, since they were getting a little tapped out by then.
They were very big on education, we had been good students, and they could swing it, sometimes with difficulty. My eldest sister will be 43 next month, and I’m not sure if she has paid my parents back yet, so maybe that wasn’t the BEST plan in the world, but we all got through undergraduate schooling.
I’m another doper who put myself through a decent school (a big one, right there in your hometown) attending full-time while working full-time (all-night cabdriver), staying on the Dean’s List most of the time and partying quite heartily. I could do that because I wanted to. I decided that I wanted to go to college when I was 22. Several years of paying my own way in life were very good experience to bring to the party.
It doesn’t sound like your daughter could do that right now. While I know you don’t want to feel, or have your daughter feel, as if you haven’t lived up to your promise, it might not be a bad idea for her to just work, and support herself for a couple of years. If she wants to go to college after that, she’ll likely be more motivated and be better equipped to deal with managing both her time and her finances. And you can still help out.
Good luck to both of you!