Peace demonstrations aren't a bad thing!!!

My God I hope this isn’t true. Cops arresting peaceful protestors and then giving them political lectures. God-damn. That’s just wrong.

I have seen alot of aggression towards people who demonstrate for peace and non-violence lately. The aggression is undeserved. I think the peace protestors cause is an admirable one. I just fear it may never be achievable. There are much more deserving targets of anger and annoyance than people who abhor violence for any reason. Give em’ a break. Especially if your a cop.

DaLovin’ Dj

Huh. Let’s take a look at this

Sounds like the police did stop these people mostly just for being dressed in black and wearing masks, which strikes me as a tad overzealous, but probably understandable in the wake of the attacks, when law enforcement is on a state of highest alert.

It looks like the people were arrested because they were either carrying weapons (whoops!) or were interfering with the cops. It also appears that the author’s viewpoint might be a little slanted, since he deplores the “sheeplike” behavior of the Denver Post and NBC for failing to see his arrest as the atrocity it was.

All in all, I can’t break a sweat about it. I was amused, however, by how his fourteen hours in jail had him thinking and talking like a criminal – “jail is hell.” He was in a holding cell. For less than a day. Let’s hope the kid never has to find out what it really means to be incarcerated.

Well, here’s the other side of the story.

http://63.147.64.127/Stories/0,1002,153~,00.html

The guy in your link was arrested, not because he was an innocent bystander, but because he was “participating”. From your link: He was just standing there watching but…

…and of course the cops are perfectly familiar with this tactic, too, so when the cop saw him participating in an “un-arrest”…

Instead of getting a clue and letting go of the guy, still according to the cop’s judgement “participating in the un-arrest”, he is himself arrested. So, duh. :rolleyes:
And he was only held for 15 hours, so this–

–sounds just a teeny bit hysterical. It’s not like they locked him up in Belfast Prison and threw away the key.

Simulpost! :smiley:

Irony (noun) : A “peace” protestor, Brennan Ryan, 28, who is arrested by police after finding him with a gas mask and concealed weapons including a steak knife, a hammer and a “wrist rocket” that fires ball bearings.

The author’s rhetoric might have been a little thick, but I think the situation is fundamentally fucked up. Especially if a cop came in giving lectures about why we have to bomb Afghanastan to people who were arrested for being peace demonstrators.

Jail is no joke, and a day is a real long time when you’re locked up (trust me). It’s nothing compared to the YEARS and YEARS millions of Americans spend in jail, but it’s not any fun and it WILL change your perspective.

Instead of being “Pro-war” or “Pro-peace” in this situation, here is an interesting read on taking “Neutral” as your stance. Followed at the end with a quote that I think is great for the SDMB:

DaLovin’ Dj

:: Shrug :: I agree that cops should probably not take it upon themselves to lecture their suspects on any topic, but I’m not getting the outrage here. Shit happens. People who disagree with you tell you so. On the scale of "fucked up"edness, “I was scolded by the cops for my political views” rates about a 1, IMO.

Not to the extent this guy apparently changed his. You yourself admitted that his rhetoric was a little thick, so don’t bother to construe comments agreeing with that point as stating something else (“jail is a joke”) that obviously wasn’t said.

It is idiotic to paint one side of this issue as “pro-war,” as if any of us is in favor of war, likes war, seeks war. It is far more accurate to say that one side is “pro-action” and the other is “anti-action.” But that’s a different issue than the OP, isn’t it?

Oh, and the statement “not-knowing is true knowledge” is self-evidently bullshit, seeing as how it makes no sense at all.

Can you tell us why?

This may be a minor nitpick, but…

A Wrist Rocket doesn’t actually “fire” ball bearings; it launches them. It’s a high-powered slingshot with a wrist brace, and can be used for hunting. Using ball bearings or glass beads, it can drop small game like rabbits or squirrels at fairly close range, but effectiveness is diminished at longer ranges. Aim is difficult too, and accuracy takes a long time to master.

(Yes, hunting small game with a Wrist Rocket is something we did when we were younger, in case you were wondering.)

I’m not sure what it would do to a human, especially at a distance, but I wouldn’t want to be on the business end of one. It is definitely not your average Bart Simpson kiddie-mischief-maker slingshot, and can well be viewed as a weapon.

End of minor nitpick.

When you can balance a tack hammer on your head, only then can you head off your enemies with a balanced attack.

The Sphinx

It’s been a while since I last read the Tao Te Ching, but I think Lao Tze is saying the same thing that Socrates used to start a debate, that you can’t really know anything until you’ve emptied yourself of prejudices, biases, and what you think you know. Then you are ready to listen and learn.

Regards the OP, that the marchers were wearing black shirts and gas masks and actively fought the police (what else is “grabbing back the police”?) only reinforces the idea that peace marchers aren’t peaceful. They obviously came loaded for bear, ready to start trouble. The linked article tries to invoke MLK to link today’s peace advocates with the civil rights movement. MLK never fought the police, never struck back, never wore a gas mask, never carried a weapon.

Frankly, getting lectured by a cop ranks pretty low on the list of civil rights violations.

Look, the tactic of “unarrest” is definately civil disobedience. Anyone who engages in civil disobedience has to be prepared to go to jail in order to make a point…that the law/situation being protested is unfair. If you are NOT willing to go to jail, then you are not engaging in civil disobedience and should not engage in activities that might send you to jail. Decide in advance how important the situation is and if you are willing to risk it. If you aren’t willing to go to jail then you have an obligation to obey all laws while protesting.

But personally, I’m fucking fed up with “protestors” wearing masks. Anyone wearing a mask to a protest should be severely beaten. If you aren’t willing to stand up for something you believe in, then fuck you. Wearing a mask to a protest is essentially equivalent to a confession of an intent to commit violent acts, and the cops should treat it that way, and so should the other protestors.

This is a good time to point out that using television or movies as a source of legal advice is not such a hot plan.

There is no rule requiring Miranda warnings after an arrest. The Miranda warnings must be given prior to any custodial interrogation - they warn you, after all, that anything you have to say may be used against you, and that you have the right to consult with a lawyer before making any statement. If the police don’t question you, they don’t have to read you your rights.

  • Rick

GOBEAR –

I realize that’s what it’s supposed to mean; I’m merely pointing out that’s not what it says and what it says is actually stupid. I mean, it’s the equivalent of stating that since you must scrub up before you perform surgery, therefore scrubbing up is performing surgery. Confucious say, not all Chinese bon mots make sense.

YEAH!! Five bonus points to Billy for the Mystery Men reference. :smiley:


From page 2. http://www.disinfo.com/pages/article/id1697/pg2/

Feh. :rolleyes:

Yo, R.U.Sirius: If you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem, babe. Deciding “not to decide” is about as wimpy as it gets. At least the “peace protestors” were expressing an opinion, at least they weren’t just leaning back in their comfy armchairs saying, “Oh, man, what we are doing is wrong, wrong, wrong, but, er, no, I actually don’t have any idea what we should do.”

We had people like that during the 1960s, too, and we told them the same thing: Either make a constructive suggestion, or shut the fuck up.

And I might also point out that it’s not logical to assert two different kinds of rights in the same sentence. To be consistent, it ought to read:

But that doesn’t make any sense, either, because it’s your democratic right, nay, your duty, to give your Commander-in-Chief some feedback as to what the Citizens of the Republic think of his actions. He can’t govern in a vacuum, guessing. He’s not a mind reader.

Nobody has a democratic right to just sit back silently in the comfy armchair and expect the Commander-in-Chief to “do something”, and then carp at him when the “something” that he does do, doesn’t do it for you.

I didn’t believe people this sheltered actually existed…

Some funny things…

He was thrown to the ground and handcuffed…and this is brutality…

He was held for 15 hours in a holding cell, then released appearently without charges being filed…and this is a life changing event for him…

He was held for 15 hours then released without charges being filed, despite the fact that he actually commited a crime (interfering with an arrest), and he’s upset about this…

He had appearently never met actual criminals before, and seemed surprized that they were just people…as opposed to the popular notions that we import them from off-world or breed them in special tanks…

The guards weren’t nice to him…I guess they didn’t tuck him in…

And my personal favorate…He didn’t get his one phone call…Oh, sure, he could use a phone anytime he wanted, but since those calls had to be collect, they don’t count…

Please, I’ve been on more harrowing bus trips…

Jodi, kind of like “You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free” or “It is better to give than to receive” are self-evident bullshit? Certainly giving a slave a fact does not free him, and any three-year-old knows it’s more fun to get something than to give something away – to recognize the deeper truth in each takes a little insight and wisdom.

I think DJ was making exactly the point you and others explicated with the quote. The Tao Te Ching has a lot of material that is quite profound but expressed in the same sort of elliptical phrasing.

Those of us who practice what a lot of people here seem to consider illogical beliefs would do well not to throw stones at others; our houses have a lot of stained glass in them too.

POLYCARP –

Um, no, but then they are not parallel statements are they? Neither says “A is B” when A is manifestly NOT B, when A is in fact definitionally “Not B”, do they? “Not knowing is true knowing” translates as A=Not A. This does not make any sense. Period.

Both of the statements you cite are generalities that, while subject to interprtation, make sense on their faces. “Not knowing is knowing” does not make sense on its face; it is, quite literally, non-sense. Taken literally, it does not ever make sense. In order to make it make sense, you have to read it as saying something it does not say – ie, “knoweldge acquired without bias or preconception is true knowledge” – a perfectly acceptable statement.

First, I have not attacked any underlying belief, nor even the underlying sentiment of Lao Tzu – which, as it happens, I agree with, though I fail to see its relevance in the context of the OP. I am merely pointing out that the sentence quoted is on its face nonsense – which it is.

Do not mistake a criticism of the statement itself with criticism of the belief underlying the statement – even though you have to work pretty hard to extract the belief from the statement, because – again – the statement itself makes no sense.

Yes, but the Tao De Ching is writen as poetry conveying philosophy. It’s meant to be understood through its deeper meaning, not in a shallow literal sense.

Many of the statements you and Poly believe sound silly if you only take them literally. Just because people believe Jesus is the Lamb of God, they do not correspondingly believe that He ate grass and said “Baa” a lot.(not to mention that communion wafers aren’t served with mint jelly)