I agree with this 100%. Diversity is important, but I couldn’t see choosing to send my hypothetical kid to a lower quality school when we could do better.
You know what’s really funny? When you grow up on a block with crack houses but in the intervening years the neighborhood gentrifies like crazy and no one believes that you grew up in a moderately “tough” neigborhood and found crack vials in front of your house all the time. When they hear where you grew up they think you were spoiled and rich like the kids who live there now, and don’t believe you that you were scared to walk on the right hand side of the street (scary druggies) and your parents wouldn’t buy you the big box of crayons cause “it’s not in the budget.”
I’m white by the way. And my parents’ home, bought for 50K in 1981 is worth well over $1 million now. BOO-yah! The crackhouses are ritzy condos nowadays and the biker bar’s a Korean grocery.
The entire gentrification process was driven in part by an excellent public elementary school in the heart of the neighborhood. A very ethnically diverse one, at the time.
I wouldn’t trade anything for the diversity in the schools I grew up with. I honestly believe it has given me some of my biggest tools in life.
For example, I currently work in the tech industry. This means about half of everyone I work with is Chinese or Indian. The background knowledge I picked up from living around people from around the world has really helped me create a comfortable workplace for everyone, avoid communication errors, and understand when the people I work with do things that may seem strange at first (for example, we just had a young female intern interview- she brought her brother along. My boss was baffled, until I explained that it to some Indians, it is a little unseemly for a young woman to meet alone with two strange men. We hired her and it’s working out great) A lot of this stuff is stuff you can’t read from a book. You pick it up by spending years in the homes of your friends and lovers with their families.
The tools my background has given me arn’t big things, but they are signifigant. Sometimes I cringe when I take my friends who grew up in less diverse areas to Chinatown or a taco truck or something, because they just don’t know how act. They say embarrasing things loudly. The treat the locals like aliens or zoo exhibits. They stick out. I’ve often been told that even though I am blonde, blue eyed, outrageously white and usually wear conspicuous clothing, I seem to blend in wherever I go. This is a great skill to have- I have no doubts that my ability to blend in has protected me from street crime to some degree. It’s certainly helped me in traveling.
And travel- my love! I don’t think I’d love travel as much, and I don’t think I’d be as interested in International news and politics if I grew up somewhere else. Everything from language aquisition, food familiarity…everything! Narrow worlds make for narrow minds. And the best time to learn we are all people, and we all deserve respect, is as a child.
Sorry if I rambled, but this is something near to my heart.
You don’t have to live near different kinds of people to learn that everyone deserves tactful and respectful treatment. There were no Asian people in my town, so I never had a conversation with any of them until college. I still struggle to understand people with foreign accents. I’m still glad that my parents sent me to a safe school with good teachers, new textbooks, a large variety of courses, computers in every class, and lots of other things that some of the city schools in this area can’t offer their students. It would take some effort, but imo, it would be easier for parents to expose children to diversity in their spare time than to make up for subpar schooling.
Of course there are areas that can provide a good education, safety and diversity. This would be the best kind of environment for children.
I had the same reaction from my coworkers when I first moved to South Florida. They were absolutely shocked that I lived in West Palm Beach (for those of you familiar with PBC, many of my coworkers live in Jupiter or Wellington). One manager would call me “ghetto girl” from time to time and ask how many drug deals I’d seen in the parking lot the night before. :rolleyes:
[quote=WOOKINPANUB=I’m just wondering where the horror lies in being able to afford to live among middle - upper class people (whatever their race).[/quote]
I don’t think there’s any inherent horrors. You can find diverse schools in well-to-do areas (and homogenous schools in less-to-do areas), and the truth is that richer areas do have nicer things (nicer restaurants, libraries, streets, etc.)
I just want to live in an area where there’s no pressure to conform to a meaningless standard. I’d like to have the freedom to let my grass grow long or paint my house a funky color or leave a broken-down car in my driveyard for an extended period of time or throw a party that spills out into the front yard without people shaking their heads. I don’t want to live in a subdivision where all the houses–and the cars parked in front of them–are uniform. I also don’t want to live in a place where everyone is self-satisfied that nothing bad will ever happen in their “idyllic” community (that is, until the next Columbine happens), where everyone is constantly on the look-out for signs of decline so they can jump ship before they lose their investment. I want to have neighbors who are in it for the long haul and are attached to the place, not the monetary value of the place.
Really, as long as a neighborhood meets all the above criteria, I’m fine with it.
See, that’s the kind of attitude I’m talking about. Every neighborhood has its good parts. “Good” neighborhoods don’t hold some kind of monopoly on peace and happiness. “Bad” neighborhoods aren’t all hellish places to live.
My parents now live in a “good” neighborhood. There are plenty of shade trees and big yards, but if you want to catch a bus, you gotta walk a country mile to the closest bus stop. To me, this is a bad thing. There are no corner stores in their neighborhood–a place just across the street where you could grab some milk or a newspaper. To me, this is a bad thing. Their house looks just like all the other houses in the subdivision. To me, this is a bad thing. In our old neighborhood, however, none of these bad things existed. But for someone not accostomed to city living, maybe these wouldn’t even be bad things. They would be good things. It’s all subjective.
Not really, since I’m a single female too. 
What’s the worth of living anywhere? The worth of an area depends on what you do while you live there. If you see your surroundings as worthless, of course that’s what they will be to you. But if you accept them for what they are and work with them, then you might see things as not being all that bad.
When I lived in Newark, a Foodtown was right behind my apartment complex. This grocery store was the dirtiest thing I’d ever seen. The only people who seemed to shop there were the poor immigrants (from practically everywhere in the world) who lived in my apartment complex. I didn’t like the grocery store, but it was the closest one to me and I didn’t have a car when I first moved there. So I made do with that rinky-dink store. I’d take my granny cart with me, fill it up with stuff, and then wheel it back to my apartment like an old lady.
Anyway, eventually I got a car and I started going to South Orange (the nice neighboring town) for my groceries. Even though I loved the Shop Rite a million times more, I’d still drift back to that Foodtown for stuff. For instance, it sold Utz potato chips (cheap and yummy) and the best generic fruit punch soda ever made. It also sold the best Portugese rolls. For a dollar, you could fill up a whole plastic bag full of them. Those things kept me alive during the lean times. In contrast, Shop Rite’s Portugese rolls were lame and expensive.
My point: the Foodtown was objectively inferior to the Shop Rite. It was dirty, more crowded, and just plain out “ghetto”. But it wasn’t a worthless, horrible place. Instead of writing it off and snubbing my nose at it, I gave it chance and discovered some of its good points. That’s what I think people should always try to do.
Same here. I’ve been in the same metropolitan area for the past 17½ years; 6½ years ago, I moved from the “good” north side of town to the “bad” south side. Gangs, run-down areas, projects, that sort of thing. We’re five blocks off the main drag, at least two dozen blocks from the bad parts, and the worst of it–the projects–has since been torn down to make room for an upscale townhouse development. People still expressed concern about us moving in together on the “wrong side of town”.
The thing is that so many people judge a neighborhood’s (or school’s) “safety” on how many Black people are visibly present. Everyone would agree that I live in one of the better parts of town, but we actually have a disproportionate amount of crime- the criminals figured out where the people with money are. But the streets are gentrified to all get-out with yuppies so people assume it must be a safe place.
Even still, I wouldn’t trade it for the suburbs. I love city life too much. I love not owning a car. I love funky cafes and grundgy liquor stores and parks and being able to walk to everything I could need. I love going out and seeing people walking down the street. I love that everything here is a few bucks cheaper than in nicer areas. I hate visiting my mom in the suburbs because you can’t GO anywhere without a car. You can walk around for hours without running in to another person. People just don’t seem to look out for each other as much- just yesterday I had a woman sitting on her offer me an umbrella as I was walking home in the rain. That would have never happened among the mini-fortresses protected by seas of grass and driveway in the place where my mom lives.
And yeah, I do think some people are missing out. City life isn’t for everyone, but I bet a lot of people who would like it hold back because of irrational fears.
The truth is that even in high crime areas, most violent crime happens between people who know each other. Don’t get involved with drugs, don’t make friends with criminals, and avoid gangs, and you’ve just eliminated the majority of your chances of getting in to trouble.
Have you guys found that groceries are cheaper in the bad part of town? I’ve had the opposite experience. I’ve found that my groceries such as milk are cheaper in the suburbs. The produce selection at my local Safeway is pretty weak overall. I find myself buying most of my stuff near where I work and taking it into the D.C. when I go home.
I’ve heard from one neighbor that there is a good place to buy produce in the wholesale market area a few blocks from my house so I will check it out this week.
Yep, some people are prejudiced, but in a lot of cases you can make a pretty good guess about the kind of neighborhood you’re in by taking a look around you.
I agree that there are some downsides to living in a more rural areas.
A lot of people in the city seem “harder” to me. Like they need to put up a wall for protection. In my (rural/suburban) area, I see people doing things all the time that folks say don’t happen anymore. Like holding the door open for each other, and saying thanks when someone does it for you. Or letting a person cut in front of you in the checkout line when you have a cart full of groceries, and they only have a couple of items. When my mother collapsed in public a few years ago, everyone who saw her ran to help her without being asked. My father and I were so involved with helping my mother at first that we didn’t notice my sister (who was about nine or ten at the time) crying. A random lady rushed over to her and held her and comforted her. Dateline had an undercover special that showed lots of people in the city walking past a man holding a little girl who was screaming for help, and saying he wasn’t her father. I guess it just depends on the individuals who happen to be in a particular area at the time.
It’s true that people shy away from areas as a result of their prejudices. I don’t know that the fears are wholly irrational. I don’t want to live in an area where innocent people get killed in drive-bys. Even if it only happens every once in awhile. One good way to keep your kids from making friends with gang members would be not to move next door to them though.
Okay, monstro, now I’m getting a better idea of what you think I think a “bad neighborhood” is.
I agree with you on some points. What you’ve described sounds like some sort of uptight, deed restricted subdivision, and I wouldn’t dig that either.
But I believe there’s a middle ground between cookie cutter homes with identical SUVs, and overgrown lawns with junked out cars and people partying in the street. I don’t care what color my neighbors’ houses or skin or hair are, but I do care whether or not they take pride in their neighborhood and whether or not they’re respectful of their neighbors. In my opinion,o vergrown lawns with cars parked on them don’t reflect too much concern for the overall quality of the street, and I don’t want to get started on why it’s disrespectful to let your party “spill into the front yard” (and of course, I don’t mean some folks milling about on an afternoon /early evening. I’m talking raucous party action).
The city that I live in is on the small side geographically, but has all of the amenities of a big city(except for good public transportation). I can’t really speak about things such as being out in the burbs, thus far away from people, etc. because that’s not a choice here. I specifically moved as close to downtown as I could because I too like many of the things you say you like. I enjoy walking a few blocks to the local dive bar or the Sat. morning street market. Putting my money in the hands of the local merchants is a high priority. NOT living intrashy or unsafe conditions is an even bigger one, though.
Sorry to ramble on so. I’m really just enjoying this conversation 
One last question (for now): These “neighbors who are in it for the long haul, not the monetary value”. Do you mean they have some sentimental attachment to a particulr area, regardless of conditions improving or deteriorating? Are these home owners? Because I’ve never known a single homeowner who didn’t have a great deal of interest in the monetary value of their home. I’m not trying to pick a fight with you; just trying to understand your take on things.
I was born in Brooklyn and moved to Hollis, Queens when I was 4 years old. The neighborhood was predominantly Caucasian in 1963, but the “flight” happened almost overnight and by 1970 there were probably less than 1 Caucasian family per block left. I attended Catholic school in my neighborhood from grades 1-8 and took two city busses to High School (majority Irish or Italian-American students). When I started high school in 1971 my new classmates were amazed that I lived in what they called “the ghetto”.
I didn’t understand the perception at all - my home (a four bedroom, 2 bath Colonial) was larger than many of theirs and my neighbors were all hardworking middle class people. Was it the “ghetto” because of all the African Americans living there?
The people who started buying in the 60’s really were trying to give their children the best - a home in suburbia - it changed when the old neighbors didn’t want to live next door to the incomers.
The neighborhood did eventually deteriorate - IMO based on absentee landlords renting to people without great credit or previous good rental histories and then drugs and drug dealers made their way to Hollis along with gangs (nothing like the gangs of today) and a big increase of crime.
The hardworking homeowners formed neighborhood watches and block associations and I’m happy to say that the neighborhood has really bounced back.
I still get “the look” when I say I’m from Hollis, Queens. (Yup, like RunDMC, the middle class rappers)