Well, it could be Mónica*, but the “before” picture also looks like it’s more of a “morning after” whereas the “after” is more of an “entering the party”.
- Penélope’s sister. No, they’re not twins. Yes, people confuse them a lot.
I know, and given the situation it was completely stupid of me to show up with no makeup.
But. He was a guy. “No makeup” is what he said.
Dudes will say they prefer women with no make up, but what they mean is no obvious make up. No pancake, no super duper long lashes, no eyeshadow, lipgloss but not red lips.
Myself, I do like sexy lipstick, but hate pancake.
No, that’s “well-applied” makeup.
No makeup means skin. Like manly men go. Like, when you lick her face all you taste is skin. And maybe (hopefully) a little sweat. And steak sauce. Damn. Me & Lady Jester are going out to Longhorn tonight.
Except that’s not at all in anything you said before, and has nothing remotely in common with what Martian Bigfoot said. He never once said his determination was what women needed to use. You made that up so you could attack him.
Well, if there’s one guy who should know the difference between “no” and “some” make-up, you’d think that would be a photographer talking to a model.
What should he have said if the really meant “no make-up”? “Really-really-properly no make-up”?
Seems to me that it made perfect sense to just take him literally.
Are you trying to make a point with “quit being disingenuous” or do you not know what it means? I’m accusing Ascenray of changing his argument from what he originally said to what he said later. He’s twice added something Martian Bigfoot never said. “Women should check with me before wearing makeup” and “Women look the same with makeup and without.”
Yes, it is a possibility that the person might be misidentifying the subject of their opinion. However, no evidence of this has been brought up. No one has tried to see if Martian Bigfoot can tell if women are wearing makeup. They just repeatedly assert that he cannot.
The identification also is not sufficient to prove him wrong. He could still look at them without makeup and find them beautiful. The misidentification cannot apply to his own personal tastes in what he finds beautiful.
Those are effectively the same statement, unless you think it is okay to continue stating an opinion you know it wrong.
Yes, one can technically say that “I enjoy spaghetti” is a fact, saying that the pleasure centers in my brain light up when I consume something we all agree is spaghetti. However, what Martian Bigfoot said is closer to “Spaghetti is enjoyable.” he didn’t say “I think women who are beautiful with makeup are beauitiful without.”
Furthermore, in conversation, we treat both versions of the spaghetti statement as identical. Both are statements of opinion, even if one is technically factual.
Bastard. We are low carbing and now I want spaghetti.
Just make sure to eat it, and not put it on your face.
Anyway, because of this thread I’ve recently been paying closer attention to women’s faces, in the media and in my immediate surroundings. And you know what? It turns out that a lot of them are indeed wearing a not insignificant amount of make-up, much of which I hadn’t noticed before.
It probably says more about my observation skills, and the number of fucks I normally give about this matter, than anything else. But still, there you go.
I still maintain that someone who is beautiful with make-up will also be beautiful without. That at least holds true for my partners in every relationship I’ve been in. On the other hand, there’s a lot of make-up on faces out there that I hadn’t been noticing on paying attention to at all.
So maybe some of you (although I’m buggered if I can remember who at this point) have a point.
“Being disingenuous” does not mean “changing your argument from one to another,” though some cases can be cases of both.
I took you to be saying he was disingenuously pretending to misunderstand Martian Bigfoot, and pretending not to know obvious things. Since you were misunderstanding him in turn, and seeming to fail to understand obvious things yourself, I pointed this out, and called you by the same epithet, to illustrate how it was unfair for you to apply it to Ascenray in the first place.
To me it seems to be the obvious presupposition being made in the conversation.
That’s beside the point–he may be guaranteed to be right about which visual impressions he may enjoy, but he is not guaranteed to be right about the cause of those impressions. When people have said he’s wrong, it is obvious that they mean the latter, because the former is obviously true and would not be contradicted by anyone so casually.
Those are effectively the same statement, unless you think it is okay to continue stating an opinion you know it wrong.
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You are confusing implication with equivalence. If I say P, and P implies Q, this doesn’t mean I said Q. I said P.
It can sometimes be fair to point out the implications of what one has said, and this is sometimes marked by the phrase “so in effect you’re saying” or words to that effect. But that is not a fair move in this case, since “you can’t say X,” by itself, means a lot more than what is implied by “you can’t rationally maintain X.” The former implies a withdrawing of permission, for example, while the latter does not.
While to a certain extent Ascenray and MArtian Bigfoot are talking past each other, in the relevant post above Ascenray makes it very clear throughout his post that he is addressing the question of whether, in fact, Martian Bigfoot does indeed prefer what he thinks he prefers. In other words, he makes it clear that he’s discussing a question of facts about preferences.
Yeah, no pancake. Although, I like pancakes.
Mmm… pancakes…
This thread is just making me hungry.
Amy Schumer has weighed in on the controversy.
Haha, yeah. That’s great. I think there’s something vaguely misogynistic about “I don’t like women who wear makeup!”- at least whenever I’ve heard it, it tends to come from some creep. It’s usually from the same kind of guy who goes on and on about how much he hates tattoos on women. Possessive and creepy. Nicer guys don’t seem to be so opinionated about it, at least not within earshot of women.
Besides, the underlying message here is true- most men think they don’t like makeup on women, but they actually dislike noticeable makeup. The most attractive makeup jobs often are the ones where you can’t tell the woman is wearing any.
/topic
I think some people claim they have “no” makeup on when they in fact *are *wearing makeup because they want to attain a societal ideal of having the good appearance of makeup while claiming the natural advantage of no makeup. They want to have their cake and eat it too.
In my experiences, “No Makeup” can mean a few things:
-She literally hasn’t any makeup at all on, and hasn’t for quite some time.
-She just washed her face or got out of the shower, and there’s literally no makeup, though she’s planning to do so soon.
-She’s just woken up, or gone a day or two without washing/showering (it happens), and whatever makeup she’s put on previously, has since rubbed off or ceased to be up to standards.
-She maybe has a little makeup on, but is not madeup according to the degree she feels she needs to be seen in person/public or with her outfit (i.e. She’s going to be applying a new look).
I’ve been a woman my whole life. I’ve never encountered any woman who has bragged about not wearing make-up, who wears it secretively. Women generally don’t have a problem admitting to wearing a little make-up, because feminimity is so wrapped up in cosmetics.
I am friends with someone who just the other day, bragged about not wearing make-up other than lip gloss. However, she splurges on expensive haircuts and hair coloring. She eats very well (she’s a gourmand), she’s physically fit, and you can tell she’s had expensive orthodontia. She also pays a pretty penny for facial cremes and lotions to combat aging. You don’t need make-up when you’ve got all that going for you. And the fact that she’s not afraid to disclose these signs of vanity strongly suggest that she’s likely telling the truth when she says she doesn’t wear make-up. She cares about her appearance, but not enough to put on mascara and rogue.
I don’t wear make-up. Never have, doubt I ever will. It hasn’t stopped me from having male admirers.
Exactly sums it up. Doesn’t seem to leave room for the other poll entries.
My wife has almost never worn makeup for over 25 years now.
If someone can claim they have no makeup on when they *are *wearing makeup, then what are they supposed to say when they genuinely have *no *makeup on? Negative makeup?