Occasionally being late is an accident. Habitual lateness is a choice. Choosing a course of action that will inconvenience people with whom you have made an agreement is inconsiderate.
Rules of etiquite are fairly well fixed. If I agree to meet friends at a restaurant for a meal, I am going to be polite. I am going to dress appropriately. I am not going to belch loudly. I am not going to wear a hat inside. I am going to say please and thank you. And I am going to be on time. I do these things because they are good manners, and good manners are a way of showing respect for others.
Being late once is an accident. Always being late is a lifestyle choice. It’s rude.
It’s a courtesy issue to me, at least to a point. I will do everything in my power to be on time for something-whether it’s meeting friends or getting to work. Things do occasionally happen, but that makes me so incredibly stressed that I tend to give myself too much extra time.
The long standing joke in my family is that I was born a month after my mother’s due date(true, but I think it was wrong to start with) and I haven’t been late for anything since.
Whenever I go anywhere, I’d rather be a half hour early than 5 minutes late. I’m pretty sure this comes from my mom, because she’s the exact oppisate. She’ll leave a couple of minutes before we have to be somewhere, and naturally, something will go wrong, and we’ll be late. Growing up, I was late to every party, school concert, and school most days.
Having said this, I think the stress is greater for those who want to be on time, because they’re afraid they’ll be late again.
How, I wonder, do you arrange to meet at a resaurant without referencing a specific time? Do you say " I’ll meet you at the restaurant tomorrow afternoon"? Would you then wait for me until five if you got there at 12:30? I can think of some plans that don’t require any reference to time - I’m dropping off or picking up something and if the person isn’t home it’s no big deal to make another trip, my mother wants some me to do some work (opening or closing the pool,for example) for which her presence isn’t necessary, etc. I can think of more where a longer timespan is reasonable-I’m going shopping with a friend , and one of us will pick the other up at home between 10 and 12, for example. But most “plans” that don’t require some mention of time aren’t definite plans. If my son’s friend says he’ll ring the bell when he gets home from his grandparents’, neither of them feels that my son is obligated to stay home waiting until the friend shows up.
You seem to be saying that folks who expect other people to be on time are uptight jerks who don’t know how to entertain themselves. Most people find it unpleasant to wait around for someone, regardless of what distractions one has available. You might not feel the same way, but a considerate person takes into account the feelings of others.
There seems to be a failure in communication here. We are referring to those people that are habitually late for those situations where a specific time is mentioned. Only those situations where a time has been agreed upon beforehand. You seem to be talking about being late for a loose situation with no specific agreement about an exact meeting time. I think that we would be better off if we were all discussing the same thing.
We are merely saying that if you agree to be somewhere at a specific time, you should be there. That’s all. If you don’t set a specific time then that’s a whole other thing.
Well, perhaps we are talking at different sides, but I am trying to mention that for people like me who know they are often late-- even if it is only a little bit-- it is very frustrating to try to interact with people who hold timed meetings to be so important.
I am disappointed that consideration for others is a one-way street in that it can be leveled against me, but I may not use it in return.
Noone is saying that not showing up on time for a person with whom you had not made an appointment with is rude. All we are saying is that if you made a promise you should live up to it. From your earlier posts you said that you usually do show up on time when a time is specified. Therefore, you are not the type of person that we refer to as “habitually late”. If you consistantly failed to show up when you said you would it would be a different story, however, you do not.
You seem to be saying that you don’t like to make appointments. That you like to play it by ear and not be forced to schedule all this stuff. That must mean that you have a laid back schedule that fits with this philosophy. Unfortunately not everyone does. Some people have to schedule things like that because they may only have a certain amount of time to “hang out”. They may have other things to do, and waiting an hour or whatever for you to show up may limit the amount of time that they have to do all the other things that they have to do that day.
Basically, you thinking that everyone should be as laid back as you is a little inconsiderate.
Personal experience says that the on time person has it worse. But then again having witnessed my mother’s chaotic life, maybe the late person is so constantly stressed from being disorganized that observers don’t notice one more new stress on them.
Generally, the punctual person has conscious reasons for being on time. Perhaps they consider it polite, perhaps they feel it’s a sign of discipline or breeding, or maybe they have felt the agony of trying to figure out what time to have food ready for a dinner party. (I say what time we’re eating now instead of when to come.)
People that I have known who are habitually late have a tendency to be somewhat unaware - of the time, of other people’s feelings, that there’s somewhere they said they’d be, etc. Seeing them in that state of mind, I didn’t believe that they could be aware enough to be as stressed as the person they’re holding up.
But on second thought, how can you not be stressed if your entire life is “I need 5 more minutes” and now you have an irritated witness to the confusion?
But on third thought, the on time person probably isn’t used to this level of chaos like the late person is. So my vote goes back to the punctual person, with my sympathies going to the habitually late person. - But you still have to put your shoes on in the car, let’s go!
Easy solution–and it runs both ways. Don’t agree to the engagement.
You don’t value time so you show no respect for your friends’ time, regardless of their values. Impasse. You want them to operate on your non-schedule and you feel oppressed by being forced onto theirs.
Choice on both sides. Most people understand occassional few minutes tardiness but when it’s chronic–and acute–yeah, there’s a value conflict. (And yes, I always have a book at hand and enjoy people-watching) But it doesn’t take long to become offensive.
And frankly not worth it.
I’m easygoing to the point of coma but chronically late friends have learned their “whenever” standard is a double-edged sword. If waiting becomes boring or incovenient, I leave.
No message. No apologies. And no guilt. And no return engagements.
After all, time didn’t matter, right?
**
Oh, not at all. You can be as whimsical and irresponsible as you please. You’re perfectly free to wander hither and yon at will. But equally the rest of humanity isn’t required to wait attendence on you.
If other peoples’ time and convenience don’t matter to you then yours are equally disposable. Blowing off other people draws lines pretty effectively. Don’t whine about living by rules you set.
Erislover, your attitude is both inconsiderate and arrogant.
You’re not inconvenienced at all by being asked to stick to a schedule - your distress is caused entirely by your own self-importance.
The person who’s on time, they have a reason - even if they don’t have to be anywhere in particular after meeting them, they’re, you know, practicing a good habit.
And if they give an end time - guess what, BUCKY, that’s because they need to sleep, or be somewhere, or meet someone, or do something. Or they could just be trying to get away from your inconsiderate self.
I say: I will try to be more on time. They say: we will try not to be so forceful about setting timed engagements.
The end. Arrogant? Rude? You’re right, I do have a whatever attitude to that. I am neither arrogant nor rude in person, I simply expect that people try coming to mutual agreements on their quirks.
I have yet to lose a single friend over my tardiness. Perhaps they aren’t so “understanding” as you are being, though
Irrirating? Sure. But I stand by what I said. You don’t learn a rhino with a fly swatter!
As much fun as it’s been slinging the hash with such a loquacious charmer, I must point that if you start with the opinion that noone matters but you, what value argument except as a showcase for your brilliance? Ah, to use one of your favorite phrases, there’s the rub: I think the frustration evident on the board here and in life, is that I it feels like he’s one correct argument away from the AHA! moment, and understanding the outward consequences that his actions have on others.
But he isn’t. It’s not obliviousness to the outward world so much as disregard for it. It’s infantile, and deliberately so.
Forgive us if we get insulted when someone bails on a birthday party, because they got engaged in watching TV?! Understand that SOCIETY THAT YOU ARE A PART OF JUDGES THAT RUDE. Ok? Not just a specific individual. Everyone. Even worse than, gasp, missing a flight!
Sometimes I find it enlightening to track down other posts. Here’s erislover responding in the “Would you take a bullet for a friend or family” thread:
**There is currently no one I know who is more important to myself than myself; thus, I would not take a bullet for anyone. This is the “rational” analysis.
I might reflex for my mother, however, if such a situation occurred IRL. Thing is, my mom would kill me for something so stupid if the bullet didn’t.
**
Well, I guess if you only “might” take a bullet for Mom, who are we to ask that you arrive on time?
Ace, you are an amusing poster, I must admit, I’m sure all eleven of your posts have been terribly enlightening though I’m sorry I won’t go tracking them down to see what they were.
However, you’ll forgive me if I avoid seeing the connection between a life and death situation versus a simple matter of punctuality. Such connections may seem obvious to your ubiquitous opinion, but I fail to see a solid connection.
Yes, I am aware that the general view of society is that not being punctual is rude. I am offering my reasons for ever being not-punctual, reasons why I am punctual, and reasons why I find punctuality to be just as irritating as others find tardiness.
In other words-- and I know this will come as a shock to you, but I’m going to bite the bullet and say it anyway-- I am representing another possible side to the whole story. You may choose to ignore that side, you may choose to disagree with that side.
But I refuse to concede that I am both arrogant and rude. The best you’ll get out of me is that I’m wrong, and I fail to see how you-- much less anyone else-- has demonstrated that.
Understand that this generalization IS FALSE. Ok? Not everyone feels this way. Get over yourself for being the sole arbiter of public opinion, say something constructive, or quit pestering me.
You’ve still failed to mention what my user name has to do with anything.
Well, it’s about 30 to 1 in this thread against you right now. So, even if it isn’t “everyone” that finds lateness rude, it is the vast majority.
You find punctuality irritating and we find lateness rude. If you promise to be somewhere at a certain time and are not, then is that not rude?
I fail to see how punctuality can be a negative trait. If two people are up for the same job and one of them has never been late for any job they have ever had and the other person can’t seem to ever show up on time, which person is more likely to get the job if all else is equal?
I am usually one of those on-time people, but every now and then I run late. For me since I like to be punctual, running late causes major stress. What I don’t stress about is the 5 minutes that differing clocks makes in the time. (a man with one watch knows what time it is, a man with two watches is never sure).
I also don’t wear a watch (not since Mickey died a few years ago and found that I couldn’t change the battery with it being plastic sealed). But I find that there are clocks everywhere.
I am just going to add a few humorous stories to the fray.
My Grandmother was cronically late, you know getting everywhere at least an hour late. Everyone jokingly said she would show up for her own funeral late. Well she did. The hearse taking her to the mortuary got lost and she was late to her own funeral. It was a fitting tribute to her.
When I was in the military, my best friend was known for being late. We were at a party on base and she decided to go someplace else so we all arranged to meet up with her at a specific restaurant at a specific time. Those of us left at the party were having a good time and as the time to meet her approached we didn’t leave cause we didn’t want to have to wait for her. We arrived at her usual hour late time and figured even then we would have to wait. She was very upset with us cause for once she was on time and had to wait on us. The crowd was not very sympathetic to her complaints.
