I just have to say, I was a child of a very stingy rationer. As soon as I got in the door, I had to separate my candy into two halves, one of which I would see one piece at a time in the months ahead, the other which would disappear within a couple weeks cause…well, dammit, there was only half left! Not to delve into my psychology or anything, but I swear rationing gave me serious issues.
Just to chime in on the morning after…
I’m a Halloween freak. Love it. Always have. This weekend has been a frenzy of Halloween festivities for the kids including a Creatures of the Night ghoulish night hike at our area nature center and a tour of a decked-out Victorian mansion. Last night was just the topper when we went to my brother’s church for a Trunk or Treat gala in the parking lot: minivans galore, each with lighted jack-o-lanterns on the roof, a kid parade, and hundreds of nice folk passing out candy.
Growing up in a rural area where houses are miles from one another, we went out with my mom behind the wheel and visited everyone we knew. Some years the neighbor would hook up his hay wagon and tractor all the local kids around from house to house, and I plan to organize a Halloween hayride like this for the local kids next year, now that my kids are getting big enough to participate.
Last year we were staying at Disney World during Halloween, and of the 14 days we had there, the night we all got dressed up and went to Mickey’s Not So Scary Halloween at Magic Kingdom is one of the few things my son remembers.
Begging. Bah. I see much less greed at Halloween than I do at Christmas. My 5 year-old came home with less than a dozen pieces of candy because he was too busy chasing a pirate and Buzz Lightyear around the parking lot to actually stop and ask anyone for loot. Needless to say, there won’t be any rationing. And he said “Thank you” to each person giving out candy without any parental prompting, something I have to do constantly at Christmas and Birthdays.
What a joyful, exciting, and warm holiday for children. If you’re reading more into it, well, you’re reading too much into it.
Boo!
What a lot of fun it’s been to read about everyone’s revelry!
greyhairedmomma, you sound like a thoughtful person. I don’t want to second-guess your choices, as they sound deliberate and intentional.
Here’s the thing for me: I don’t think little kids need the “true meaning” of anything. Let that be their task in adolescence and young adulthood, when questioning and inquiry come naturally, when words and ideas from people long dead become fascinating and relevant.
For now, my toddlers are busy teaching me. Being in the moment with them, full of joy, fear, gratitude, curiosity - that’s meaning enough.
I should address the “Too much blood and gore” comment.
No. Nuh uh. 99% of Halloween decorations are as innocent and fluffy bunny as a fluffy bunny. Take a look around – most ghosts are nothing but a marshmallow with eyes. Most mummies are marshmallows with eyes and white tape. Most witches are as scary as My Little Pony. The blood and gore of Halloween is of the green slime type that kids think is fun. There is very little macabre about it. Halloween has been sanitized for your kids’ safety and comfort. There is much more danger and offensiveness to Spongebob.
Opposite here, I was born on Canadian Thanksgiving and had the combo for my first twenty-odd years before moving down south. It rained here last night so we only got a handful of trick-or-treaters.
That poor kid! My birthday is on Halloween, and I thought it was great because I got trick-or-treating and cake. It did make parties difficult sometimes, though.
I love Halloween. It’s so neighborly and great. I had a blast last night.
Oh, and who wants to hear about the greatest tradition ever at the local college? We went to the annual Pumpkin Drop. The physics students dress up as Galileo and re-enact the famous Tower of Pisa experiment…with pumpkins! Einstein was MC, and Newton made an appearance too. The best part is that for a finale, they play the Overture of 1812 and time the pumpkins to land on the cannon blasts.
Da da da DA da dum da DUM dum dum…SPLAT!
Da da da DA da dum da DUM dum dum…SMASH!
I understand the fun of Halloween and I like it too. I have a child too young to go out trick or treating yet but he still gets a costume and we still do the pumpkins and hand out good candy and everything. i had a lot of fun trick or treating as a kid and I went out until Jr. High age.
I still think it is not the end of the world if you don’t do it or as important as some of you are making it out to be. I don’t think greyhairedmomma’s kids need your pity. Halloween is not a requirement of a happy childhood and it sound like they are not exactly standing at the window pressing their noses out looking longingly at all the trick or treaters. There are plenty of holidays and ‘cultural events’ in our nation and kids do not need to participate in all of them to be happy or grow up and be functioning adults. Really - some of you are saying how sad her kids must be and how horrible it is that they can’t experience this. I just don’t see it! People don’t celebrate different holidays all the time for different reasons, some religious, some not. I don’t hear anyone feeling sorry for the thousands of kids who don’t celebrate Christmas and I think that is a bigger cultural event than Halloween.
To each their own. She is not a bad mother and I am sure her kids are fine.
Why would I change my mind because one of her friends asked her to go? It’s not like she doesn’t trick-or-treat because she has no one to go with.
I don’t think Halloween is evil, but it is definitely not a fluffy bunny holiday. I don’t like it and I’m not going to participate in it. If my kids resent me for that then so be it. I tend to think they’ll remember the fun we have as a family instead. Last night we watched some favorite movies and had pizza & our favorite candies. The oldest worked on some songs for her new rock band and performed them for us. Then she read us a bedtime story and we all fell asleep in my bed. (until I kicked them out so I could get some space - why do the smallest kids take up the most room?) I’m sure she would have preferred to be out with the other kids. But then there are a lot of things she’d probably like to do that I have to put the kibosh on for various reasons.
Maybe when they grow up they’ll be so filled with resentment and anger for not being able to participate in Halloween that they’ll write a book about their horrible childhood. Hopefully it’ll be a best seller and they’ll get rich. Then I won’t have to worry about them moving back in at the age of 30 after being laid off and unable to find a new job quickly. Maybe I should do meaner things so the book is really juicy. The bathroom floor does need scrubbing and we do have several old toothbrushes. And I do have ductape to stop the complaining. Hey - this could work!
Thanks for the inspiration guys!
Can you explain this, please?
Congrats on your future wealth, BTW.
I’m not sure that’s entirely true.
When you get right down to it, none of them are. Celebrating a guy getting nailed to a cross isn’t exactly the sweetest message, y’know?
Entirely your right.
Yeah, but y’know, easier said than done. I don’t think you actually believe they’ll resent you. But then again, I didn’t think my son would resent me for anything either. Ah, teenagerhood. What joy you have in store for you.
Probably. And, y’know, I would totally support your decision and your poo-pooing of what we’re telling you if it were as simple as “I just don’t like the holiday, but if my kids really want to when they’re teenagers, then so be it, and I won’t stand in their way.” But you aren’t being neutral about it when you talk to your kids. In fact, you’re going out of your way to make sure they know exactly how you feel about it and instill those same feelings. From your own post:
You say this to an 8 year old? Don’t get me wrong. Kudos for you for treating your child enough like a thinking person to give her a reason, instead of just “because I said so.” But seriously. Have you even looked for a positive message in Halloween? You have the entire internet at your disposal. Believe it or not, the messages that stick with your kids the most are the ones that come from you. And right now, the message you’re sending is "it’s a bad holiday, and I dislike it so much, I’d rather take you out of school and shut up our house than see you participate in it. You really believe that doesn’t have an impact? That they will change a lifetime of habits after they reach their teenage years? C’mon. You’re not that naive.
I know two little girls who are very happy today. They’re the only ones who showed up at our door and I gave them two big handfuls out of our candy dish!
My wife and I overbought, but we figure it’s better to have too much than too little. After I gave one party a big handful of candy each, the little boy walked back to his father saying, “This is the best Halloween EVER!”
Fang went out with Mrs. Magill and our two neighbors. They had fun. That’s the point isn’t it?
Before they went out, Fang and I talked about what he was going to be doing. I explained the whole Trick or Treat concept. He didn’t get it until we practiced. You could see the light going on as I dropped the little candy bar into his bag, and he went running upstairs shouting, “Mama! Mamaaaa! I did tickerteet an Dah… CANDY!”
Of course this morning was payback, as when I asked what he wanted for Breakfast, he replied “Candy.” He had to settle for a banana and Chex.
They’re so cute when they’re in their early 20s.
Well, if that’s how you feel about it, fine, but I still find your attitude distasteful. Some of my fondest childhood memories are of Halloween. Not the candy-although that was fun-but going around in my costume (which you spent MONTHS thinking about, and preparing) with all of my cousins, around their huge neighborhood, seeing all the other kids in their costumes, how people decorated their houses (one guy always did his garage up with a strobe light and eerie music-it was great!).
I remember one of my uncles would always wear a scary monster mask and he’d put it on before he got out of the car, and my other cousins and I would pretend to be scared and start screaming and running around.
I still have pictures of the year I went as She-Ra and my cousin went as Jem-how perfectly 80s is THAT?
Same here. I have no memory of any candy I got. What I remember is a couple of my costumes, the costumes of others, the decorated houses, and mostly my friends and the good times. I fondly remember the year I decided not to trick or treat, but instead opted to set up a haunted house in the garage. I remember carving pumpkins. I remember the weird kid who came to our house. He was wrapped in a blanket and had a mask just like mine, and spoke in a weird falsetto voice. Turned out to be my dad.
Yeah, nothing positive in those memories. And my greed was unbounded.
Again let me preface this by saying i don’t think this is an EVIIIILLL holiday. But pretty much from near the end of September throughout October we’re constantly bombarded with advertisements for numerous things that have to do with killing, violence, gore and just general horror. I can’t even watch HGTV without seeing this stuff. Even the damn disney channel has spookier than I think should be shown on that channel advertisements. I’m sick of it. I came to dread this time of year a long time ago.
And I say this as a fan of Stephen King. I’m not against a limited amount of horror schlock but you can’t seriously tell me that Halloween is only about trick-or-treating.
We’ve talked about the origins of Halloween (from the Celtics to the blending of Christian holidays), we’ve discussed how other cultures celebrate this time of year and all of that in relation to how it’s celebrated here and what it means here. You know, I couldn’t in good conscious sit down and tell my kids that Santa brings gifts to all the good boys and girls knowing damn well that there are tons of kids who behaved better than them who would get nothing. I just couldn’t bring myself to do it. I can’t bring myself to celebrate Halloween because I don’t agree with it either. The origins of both are ok but the portrayal now isn’t something I agree with.
Yes I realize that my opinion, at this time of her life, on any number of issues is the one that form the basis of her value system. And I am using this time to try to instill in her the acceptance of different points of view *even if she doesn’t agree. * Her grandmother tells her that she thinks Halloween is all about paganism and worshipping Satan. I tell her that it isn’t, but that I’m not comfortable with the level of gore and horror that is associated with the holiday. And believe it or not, us not celebrating Halloween has gone a LONG way towards helping her understand the myriad different religious and cultural traditions of her classmates. There is none of the attitude that some people in this thread have displayed for people who don’t conform to the majority. I am very careful (in actions and words) to not portray this as a right or wrong issue - it’s simply a difference of opinion. And she gets that. I don’t pull her out of school to take away any chance of participation - I take her out so that she won’t have to sit in the principal’s office all day doing worksheets and feeling left out. We do something else fun instead, sometimes at home, sometimes not. The whole school goes on a Halloween parade out through the neighboorhood, the whole school day is geared towards Halloween. It would be cruel to make her watch that all day and not participate.
I would hope that my kids wouldn’t just up and decide to rebel by throwing out all the things that I’ve tried to teach them. But I recognize that teenagers sometimes try to assert their independence in ways we can’t always predict. She might decide to go to a Halloween party. Hopefully by then I’ll have set the stage so that we can talk about it instead of her being deceitful. We’ll see.
We aren’t celebrating the fact that he was killed, we’re celebrating the fact that he had the courage, faith and the love to die in order to make things better for others.
You know, I haven’t changed my mind about this, but this has provided yet another opportunity for me to examine my thoughts about this and reaffirm just why I’m opposed to this holiday. So thanks for the actual discussion.
Oh and about the “kids are selfish” comment - yes kids start off as selfish creatures. They have to be taught from toddlerhood to be empathetic to others and that the world does not, in fact, revolve around them. It’s a very slow process because of course when they’re babies their world does indeed revolve around them. They have to be taught that there is a larger world and everyone is important. Most kids get that instruction and are pretty cool by the time they get into school. But even though I don’t think one day a year (and it isn’t really if you include birthdays and Christmas for those who celebrate it) will ruin the whole value system - but again it isn’t for me.
And I’m done with this thread - I think I’ve explained myself pretty well for those who are willing to accept a different viewpoint and I’ve got a ton of materials to prepare for a conference. My boss would kill me if she knew I hadn’t gotten much done this morning.
Glad you all had a great holiday.
Okay. I can respect that. I still don’t agree with it, but I respect it. It appears you’ve put quite a bit of thought into what you do, instead of just an uninformed judgement call.
Here is my main gripe with this: I don’t think the way he died should be nearly as important as the way he lived. It cheapens the whole message. But that’s just my opinion.
I think what bothers me is the whole “there’s no real MEANING behind it!” Why does it have to have meaning? Why can’t it just be for fun?
sneaking back in*
Thanks - that’s nice to hear. Sometimes I overthink situations and wind up changing my mind because it’s just not that big a deal, but I’m comfortable with staying the course with this one.
This is something for another thread but I disagree that it cheapens the message, I think it makes it a little bit stronger. If he had “chickened out” of sacrificing himself would his acts be given as much attention as they are now? I don’t know - I haven’t really thought too much along those lines, but I do know that martyrs tend to be more remembered than those who go more quietly.
:rolleyes: As I’ve said not everything has to have a deep meaning behind it. Why can’t you accept that my decisions are different than yours?
Yeah, probably is, but I think it rather ties in to how holidays change meaning over time, as well. I think it comes down to human nature.
For example. We have a summer place up at Donner Lake. A few years back, I took my son to read the plaque there. After reading it, he looked at me with a very puzzled expression and said “so…they named this place after people who ate each other and died?” “Yeah, well, there’s more to the story than that, but essentially, yes.” “Mom. That’s dumb. Why didn’t they name it after the people who made it through originally? Or the people who came and got them? Why would they name it after idiots?” “Well, buddy, they really didn’t have much choice. They had to go through. Their money was dwindling, and…” “Yeah, but mom. They should’ve planned for that and left earlier in the year. They were idiots.” To this day, he calls it “The land of the stupid people.” No one thought to name it after the people who made it through that pass intact. And they were probably just as hard working and were good people who wanted a better life. No. People remember the idiots who left late in the year, their money gone, no food, who ended up cannibalizing members of their party and dying horrible deaths. Likewise, instead of being reminded every year of all the wonderful things the prophet Jesus did while he was alive, we are instead reminded with gruesome detail of how he died. “Land of the stupid people” indeed.