What law for which claim?
I said that where?
Just when I thought that you couldn’t sink any lower into the vat of stupid conclusions. So - why am I now a stewardess (I mean flight attendent), and what makes you think I worked all my life to “be” anything?
Yup - at my parents house, relatives houses, parks, daycare, schools, McDonalds. The occasional Disney movie. You know - we went to child specific places to learn manners before we went to non-child specific places. Amazing concept, huh?
Didja notice the word “universally” in what I wrote? The only thing you listed that is close to that is the taxes and God knows I pay far more taxes to support children than you pay to support services you don’t use.
How do you know?
How many other products can you think of that use a puppy or kitten to sell something that has nothing to do with puppies or kittens? Here, we have a baby selling investment plans, another baby selling cars, yet another baby selling cell phone service, older children selling cell phone services for another company, a child who cannot sing selling plumber services - and that was just the ads that came up while I was writing this post. Only saw one cat, which just happened to be in the background, and no dogs.
Children are not supposed to having earning potential - the idea is that the parents wait to have the kids until they can actually afford them. Which has become extremely unpopular these days for some reason.
That’s nice - one example out of how many?
Which indicates that a 45 year old is less worthy. Considering that a 45 year old is far more likely to leave a grieving spouse, friends, and yes - children, than a 5 year old would. The five year old is most likely only going to be missed by it’s parents, so it seems to me that it should be considered more sad that a 45 year old has died than a five year old. A five year old has just gotten started, hasn’t formed any goals/plans, hasn’t had any opportunity to begin any work that might improve the human condition, hasn’t formed any deep bonds with anyone other than it’s parents yet somehow society is more concerned with the loss of the five year old. Doesn’t make any sense.
Is that what it comes down to? Because most people think small children are cute, they must be more valuable? Sad.
They say that in news stories that are run in the US. If it was an international incident, each country is going to note how many of their countrymen they lost, if any.
Which has nothing to do with what I said. Just another example of a parent trying to convince me? themself? that their kid is great.
Funny. Somehow I ended up with a doting husband, many good friends and a very full life. Wonder how? Could it be because not liking kids doesn’t equal being an overall bad person?
Yeah, which is why I didn’t say that “everything” was better, I specifically spoke on the raising of children only. So, unless children are everything to you…
Which has what to do with what I said?
Huh. I’ll be sure to let my husband and friends know that I have an erstaz through my pets.
If you are serious, I will take that bet. Tho I suppose to be fair I should tell you that I have already been blown off by the police WRT a screaming child. But, if you don’t believe me, bet me.
A lot. If nothing else, one of the reason that I am past the time I need to worry about having children is because I am 18 years down the road from my tubal, but I am also almost thru menopause. I don’t work any more because I am disabled.
It’s a lot long for this day and age. There are 11 years between me and my last brother and I don’t really consider him to be of my generation, tho technically he is.
What time? You never said.
Go back and read the post - I didn’t say that.
Nope, I’ve been telling you that you are not of my generation.
Children always have someone around that will care for them - young children anyway - and those young children seem to be more able to get over the loss. Someone who loses a spouse at a young age can be emotionally crippled for life. Besides, the newsies will say “mother of 4” even if those 4 are all teenagers and older! It just makes it look like the only worthwhile thing that woman did in her life was poop out kids.
These sorts of things seem to be everywhere - donate to the Ronald McDonald House, donate to those walking to cure childhood cancers, donate to the Shriners so they can keep their children’s hospital open, donate to the Christian Childrens Fund, donate to the March of Dimes. And that Prop 8 thing was so sleazy, I’d have voted against it if I’d had children just because it was so sleazy! As it was, we voted against it anyway.
Yeah, amazing how young kids who are not taught manners turn into teenagers who think it’s OK to blast their hatred all over the neighborhood! :rolleyes:
Though the thread is far too long and filled (probably) with great heaping gobs of raw stupid, I think this;
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It’s perfectly ok to hate kids. Hate is a valid emotion, so long as you don’t act on it. People who claim to “love kids” have been known to do unspeakable things to them, by contrast all the ‘haters’ generally want is to be left the hell alone in peace and relative quiet.
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Parents are full of shit. Somewhere along the line, many parents get far too comfortable in their roles and through that comfort project their pubescent tyranny on everyone else. If you have a crying infant, soothe it, quiet it down immediately or move on (if not, say, on a plane). If you have a precocious child, reign the wee bastard in. The rest of us don’t have to ‘understand’ just because your widdle precious can’t/won’t stop acting like a wee bastard. You’re there, fix it.
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I agree with everything Jolly Roger said.
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Older kids have fuck all to be afraid of these days. They aren’t afraid of parents, cops, teachers, hell, any sort of authority figure at all. There’s no respect because we’ve catered to the cult of the child for the last 25- 30 years. If you put foot to ass, to correct a behavior, you’re an abuser. If you grab some little beat-off by the stack-and-swivel and haul him down to his parents after he breaks your window, you’ve kidnapped THEIR sweet innocent little baby. This kind of nonsense used to be one,maybe two houses in the neighborhood, now, it’s everywhere.
Finally, I don’t ‘hate’ kids in the traditional sense, I just don’t believe they have any more or less inherent value than anyone else. If you were up fighting with your sweetie until 3 am or your baby was crying until 3 am, or your mutt was rattling the window frames with his barking, I give a shit. I have to sleep, I have happiness to pursue, and can’t do it without the proper amount of sleep. Bottom line, the noise is GOING to stop. If I know you, i’ll stop over, check in, make sure eveything’s okey-dokey. If I don’t, that’s why I pay taxes.
One of my favorite authors with one of my favorite quotes.
The trouble with these people is that their cities have never been bombed and their mothers have never been told to shut up. -Charles Bukowski
Anyone that thinks it’s OK to take their kids to a store or sit down restaurant to teach them manners, rather than teach them manners and then take them out in public. Such as the post that Left Hand of Dorkness wrote in response to Carol Stream, yesterday at 6:55 PM.
Okay, so you clarified some of what you said. So, unless you’re going through menopause at an unusual age, you’re about the same place I am. So, again, I do know the time you’re talking about and you’re incorrect about societal norms.
Just because you don’t consider him to be doesn’t mean he isn’t. So, okay, I’ll go with your definition and say my siblings and I maybe cross two generations. So what? It still means I have a good idea of what was normal treatment of children in public for that amount of time, including the time you were a child. Doesn’t change anything about what I said.
Well, now I have.
I do wonder why you assumed that in the first place. You had no information from me to go on, so what caused you to jump to that conclusion?
I truly don’t think anyone has said that’s the only place or time to teach any child manners. What they have said is that children learn to behave in public by being in public. Which is partly true. The same way you have to take dogs into places with people and traffic and other things going on to train them to act properly around people and traffic and other things.
You teach children manners at home and when you take them out and when they’re at Grandma’s and when they’re in church and when they’re anywhere. It’s an ongoing process. But at some point you have to take them places to let them get used to using those manners when they’re in places other than home.
Okay, I misquoted you on part of that. Still not the norm. Again, not only was I going to the grocery store well before I was nine, I was going alone, as well as to the post office to pick up the mail, where I had to use the combination to open the box. Also to the drugstore to buy the occasional popsicle, and to the snackshop for the rare phosphate. We ate in decent restaurants when we traveled (nothing fancy, but definitely not McDonald’s). We visited churches for Sunday service on vacation. Yes, there were places where children didn’t go, but the grocery store wasn’t one of them.
How insecure are you!?
The fact that the 5 year old has not been given the chance to have a spouse, friends or children IS what makes it sadder.
A 45 year old may be “cut down in their prime” and it’s horribly sad but NOT as sad as someone never given the chance to have all those relationships and experiences in the first place.
A 5 year old is not more valuable than a 45 year old, nor is a 85 yr old more valuable than a 45 yr old. But it is sadder when a 45 yr old dies than an 85 yr old because they died when they still had so many experiences left to gain.
Perhaps curlcoat realizes that her husband could still change his mind about having children. It’s hardly fair, but men can become daddies quite late in life–especially with today’s pharmaceuticals.
Just one slip & he’d be eager to start a new life with a new woman. A younger, healthier woman.
Who doesn’t sit & bitch all day long…
Here’s what I have to wonder now, given your prolific over-the-top responses to all posters on this thread. I’d have to guess that you have the police on speed dial and that you were blown off by the police after you had developed the habit of calling to complain about something or another about 50 times a day.
Where you blown off the first time you called? Or the 234,564,399th time you called?
There is an amusing amount of irony contained in these two sentences.
Well, that was a bit uncalled for.
You’re so cute when you continue to make incorrect assumptions. Particularly when you keep changing the generation you grew up in.
You did? Where? All I have seen is claims that you are of the same generation I am.
I’ve had all kinds of information to go on. You listed examples from several generations, the things you say about your childhood and, most telling, you won’t tell me your age. If you did that, the illusion that we are of the same generation will be gone.
Which is just barely possible, not that it would make any difference WRT the society I grew up in.
People who defend children screaming & running amok in stores are not teaching their kids manners at home and then practicing those manners when they go out in public - it’s pretty obvious that these children don’t have much in the way of manners. And even if they did, if the fit was a one in a million meltdown, the telling thing is the parents don’t do anything about it. That’s the dealbreaker right there, the one that tips people into saying they hate children.
That person does not exist in this thread.
Insecure? What in the world does that have to do with anything?
That’s kind of pathetic, you know? You think it’s sadder that the 5 year old doesn’t have a spouse, friends or children around to mourn that death? It’s not sadder to lose the 45 year old, a person who has established connection with who knows how many people, who has most likely become a contributing member of society?
Which one do you think is going to leave a bigger hole in the world when they die?