You hate children, eh? Wonder why.

The BBQ Pit
1

Quoth SqrlCub in this thread: “Children are a menace and should be wiped out. :P”

I hate that attitude. Hate it with all my heart. People who say they hate children and act accordingly, then can’t understand why so many children don’t want to cooperate with them.

I remember a series of threads about a year ago (maybe two) where people were sharing stories about childhood hijinks. “Oh, yeah, I used to blow up mailboxes, raid my dad’s porno collection…I was a hellion!” “Heehee! Funny anecdote there! Reminds me of the time I streaked my parent’s anniversary party! Oh, they could have killed me!”
Then somebody posted about a friend who was visiting and brought hir unruly kids, who did all the same stuff that was rejoiced over in the previous threads. Only now it was, “OMG, I can’t believe you have to put up with that!” “Yeah, you should drown them like kittens!” “WE never did ANYTHING like that, ever, and god help us if we had!” “Why are they messing up my house? Don’t they know I don’t want them here?”

If you’re someplace like a wedding or a vacation, and there are children who are running all around, messing stuff up, or worst of all trying to talk to you, and you’re wishing you could vaporize them, I gotta royal news flash for you. They don’t want to be there either.. They’ve been taken away from their environment and plunked down someplace where there’s nothing they’re allowed to do, except “Sit right there. And don’t move. And don’t touch anything.” They’re trying to find some way to amuse themselves, but instead of suggestions, or positive attention, they get threats, and kicks to the curb. They’re surrounded by people who make no secret of their unfounded hatred, and guess what? They’re not willing to cooperate with people who’ve declared themselves enemies.

Sit down with them, for fuck sake. Play a game of fucking cards with them. Oh, you have more important drinking to do? Fine, crawl into the bottle. Listen to little Dylan or Heather talk about the Christmas program and how they played a snowflake. Oh, you wanted to visit your family? This is your family. If they’re irrepressibly hyper and won’t sit still, ask them to count the number of dandelions in the lawn and report back to you. But don’t blame the children. Blame the asshole parents who dragged them someplace where they don’t belong.

And for god’s sake, don’t all jump in with your anecdotes about being in a restaurant where children were throwing spaghetti across the room. I’m not talking about children exhibiting behavior that would get adults arrested; I know that’s wrong. I’m talking about situations where children are ignored for hours on end, and then get screamed at because they ended up doing something the adults don’t like.

And here’s another suggestion. If it took hours of car travel for them to get there, maybe they’d like something to eat. Or something cold to drink. Maybe they’d like a chance to go outside and stretch their damn legs.. An ordeal on the highway to get there. Another ordeal in the house, waiting for the event to start. Another ordeal waiting for the event to be over. Another ordeal on the highway to get back home. And all of it knowing that the adults would kill them rather than have to look at them.

Incoherent, I know. But I’m telling you, you get what you fucking give. If you act hostile, they’ll find some way to get back at you. If you act understanding, they’ll want to stay on your good side.

2

I don’t like children (:D), but I agree with your post. The worst place to find this stuff is in casinos. Saw something on Dateline years ago about parents playing slots until 2 in the morning, and having their kids sitting near the bathrooms. Disgusting.

3

Amen!

4

Rilchiam, I think people react this way for a couple of reasons.

One, it is this reaction to the social assumption that everyone, especially every woman, loves kids, and worse, is competent with children. If you don’t either have kids yourself or work with them, they are these strange little grubby things that you have no clue what to do with. If you don’t take a firm “kids are not my stance” thing, you may be stuck being responsible for a child–and if you have no clue what you are doing, taking responsibility for a child feels like taking responsibility for a hand-grenade with no pin–something horrible could happen and if it does it is all your fault!

Furthermore, many people habor thier dislike/lack of raport wiht children for years because they are ashamed of it–again, this is particularly true of women, who grow up under this assumption that they like kids, want kids, enjoy spending time with kids. When someone finally realizes that there is no shame attached to not liking with kids, and screws up thier courage to admit it–“I hate kids!”–they are apt to keep saying it loudly.

Second, I think many people get bored listening to parents talk about kids, and this is a premptive measure. (I hate kids! is a good way to head off these conversations). I, myself, think this is horribly rude behavior. Of course parents talk about children too much. Kids consume thier life. We all talk about something too much, and one of the little social vasalines that keep society going is listening politely past the point where a conversation is interesting. One uses this time to work out what one is going to say when one gets the floor. Why some people seem to feel listening to someone go one about childrearing is so much more horrible–and hence justifies so much more rudeness–than listening to someone go on about cost accounting, I don’t understand.

Lastly, I reserve the right to dislike particular kids. Kids are people, and sometimes people don’t get along. I try not to make blanket assertions about likeing any huge catagory of people.

5

Bagkitty has learned, never bad-mouth dogs or children on the boards. It’s their owners/parents who are the problem. Relatively okay to bad-mouth them.

Still, I don’t keep canines or kids around my place.

6

All right, Manda Jo, let me clarify my OP. I knew I’d have to; I just wanted to get the edge off my ire.

Although I do love children and am competent with them, I’m aware that not everyone does or is. I’m not talking about people who have babysitting tasks thrust upon them*; I’m talking about situations like a family get-together which is mostly adults, with children on the periphery, and someone says, “Why doesn’t someone shut them up!” E equals MC squared (last I heard) and children make NOISE. Deal with it. How do you think you sound to them?

*Which is another thing I hate. It happened to me, a lot, and I’m not doing it to someone else: being stuck with someone who says implicitly, and sometimes in exact words, “I didn’t want to do this. You just sit there and read your damn book and shut up.” Sometimes there’s no clear-cut solution: the children have to be left with someone, and maybe kid-hating Aunt Sally is the only choice. But that just emphasized the importance of your “firm kids-are-not-my-thing stance”!

Hint: Children will do chores if you make them sound like fun. Especially if they don’t normally do them. It sounds backwards, I know, but the novelty can be fun! I once had a six-year-old boy scrubbing a floor with me, racing to see whose half would be done first! Of course, I had to go over his half again when he wasn’t looking, but he was soooo proud of his new skill! So if you have some project you’ve been putting off, like dusting the Venetian blinds (ugh), you can get it done as a team, with the promise of ice cream afterwards, and the option of a break when their little hands get tired.

As far as people rabbiting on about their kids, well, that’s another deal entirely, and not what I was referring to.

7

For the most part, I don’t like being around children, especially young chidren (3-7). There are a few reasons for this. First, children are small and oftentimes prone to impulsive movement, and I’m clumsy and not very observant, so I’m always a little nervous I’m going to step on them. Secondly, we don’t have many interests in common, and I find it really hard to talk to them, for the most part. We just don’t share very many interests, and I have a hard time talking to them about things like current events and history with them. Likewise, I usually get bored with what they’re talking about. I sympathise with them when they get dragged to things like weddings, funerals and public gatherings that they don’t want to be at, because most times I don’t really want to be there either, but if I’m willing to be bored by people I don’t really like or care about, the kids can too, I guess.

8

Rilchiam, I wasn’t disagreeing with you at all: I was just attempting to explain why people act like they act, not as an excuse, but as an interesting mental excersise.
I am a little confused about your position on leaving kids with kid-hating Aunt Sally: first you say you hate it and won’t do it, then you say we have no real choice but to do it sometimes, then you seem to imply that kid-haters ought to babysit whenever they are asked. Personally, I think that it is only excusable to ask kid hating Aunt sally to babysit in the case of ER trips or funnerals, and that in any case other than ER trips or funnerals, Aunt Sally is totally within her rights to say “hell no!”.

Furthermore, note that getting kids to do chores is exactly the sort of thing it takes experience with children to think of ,and it is not something that is self-evident. I realized one day how little experience with children some people have–what with smaller families, many people have no younger siblings, few if any cousins, all of whom lived far away, and no peers with children. Children are truly alien to these people, so it is a suprise that they make noise and get bored easily.

9

Well, to tell you the truth, it doesn’t really matter if you are interested in what they are saying, because even the most brilliant kids won’t realize you aren’t actually listening to them if you pretend that you are. I have a short attention span and kids bore me, but I like kids, and I think it’s important to be nice to them because it will make them better adults. So when they start babbling just pretend to listen and leave it alone. Throw in a few comments about what they are talking about, and they’ll be more than happy to rattle on about whatever it is they are talking about.

Erek

10

Okay, I can’t stand most children, but that’s because I’m not very good with them. Even when I was a child I wasn’t good with other children – I’d always rather talk with adults. But I do my best to be nice to children, and treat them the same way I wanted to be treated at that age, because I make myself remember I was there once.

As a veteran of the kid’s section at Borders (solo during the Christmas season) I heartily concur that parenting (or lack thereof) is 95% of the problem. Like the lady who picked up a stack of decorating books and only raised her nose from them to yell at her four-year-old to shut up and sit down. Listen, hobag, it’s 11:30 pm, your kid is tired and hungry, he can’t read and you’ve given him nothing to do, and you’re surprised that he’s crying his head off?

And for the record, I never got a single complaint from kids or adults during my term of service in the section. :slight_smile:

11

Actually, if I might offer one small piece of unasked-for advice…

Treat the kids like adults. If you’re at some silly function you don’t want to be at tell them. They probably don’t want to be there as well and will think well of you for feeling the same way.

Other than that, they’re probably as bored of your speech as you get of theirs. Just don’t talk to them then. A lot of kids will be OK with it.

12

No. I like kids, and I will babysit if asked (and sometimes if not asked, when I sense that the children would be better off not dragged around someplace they don’t want to be, but I recognize and respect that not everyone feels that way.

What I meant was that I wouldn’t leave children with a kid-hater if I could avoid it, but…

…not every family or community has built-in babysitters. It’s the parents who sometimes have no real choice. You can’t take a seven-year-old to a bachelorette party, and you can’t leave her by herself, so it’s better for her to be with kid-hating Aunt Sally than to stay in the hotel room and eat the soap.

Now, I did not say that. What I was protesting was the remarks people so often make, as if kids have no ears or no feelings, or neither. Like, “God I hate kids!”, when they’re still in the room. Or “Somebody sterilize me!” or “How do you put up with him?” That’s not about babysitting, it’s about manners and consideration. Which we all want kids to have, right?

Indeed. Which is why I was agreeing with your assertion that people who aren’t “good with kids” should make it clear up front that they are not potential babysitters.

**

Yes, that is part of the problem, now that you’ve mentioned it. Used to be, gatherings were like 40% children, %60 adults, or something like that, so the children had each other for company. Now we have one sad little kid hovering around the edges, or tearing things up because he’s been told “I don’t care what you do; just do it away from us”. Or worst of all, two children who are separated by age, gender, or a combination, and therefore can’t get along. Which, of course, leads to “Oh, great; now they’re fighting. That’s it; I don’t want kids in this house ever again.”

Still, we’ve all had the experience of being children, have we not? If you’re stuck with a child, asking “What would you like to do?” is always an option.

You meant no surprise, right? :slight_smile: Seriously, I love all this jazz I hear about a “kid-oriented society”. What’s really happening is that children aren’t given much if any chance to gradually integrate themselves into the adult world as they go along. They’re playing sophisticated video games and wearing expensive clothes (if their parents can or do so indulge them), but they’re still doing so in a gulag.

13

Well, I don’t generally talk to them, and I’m fine with it, and they’re fine with it. (I usually don’t talk to many people at social gatherings, kids or adults.)

14

Actually, I think it is a more general reaction to a society that considers children the most lovable, most worthwhile, most adorable things ever. If you are genuinely uninterested in children, it is sickening to have this thrown in your face every time you turn around. One gets sick of watching ads try to manipulate you with precious chubby toddlers. Worse, one gets very sick of parents shoving their children into your face and telling you “he’s cute, isn’t he?”.

I have a two-year old nephew, and caught his parents trying to teach him to call me “auntie mischievous”. When I told them to stop, their response was “oh, but he’s a kid, isn’t it cute?” NO. I would not accept a cutsie nickname from anyone, why should I have to take this shit from a miniature that I could kick over the wall with approximately zero effort?

Rilchiam, I know that it is the parent’s fault when some kid decides to start kicking me on the subway. I know that he’s bored, and poorly disciplined. But the frustrating, aggravating, infuriating part is that I can’t get him out of my hair because he’s a kid. I mean, if an adult did that, I could deck him and the whole subway car would cheer. If a kid does it, that’s child abuse. The most I can do is ask the parent (if one is in evidence) to please remove the child, but I do frequently get the "he’s bored/tired/doesn’t mean it/isn’t he cute’.

I don’t hate children, but I chose not to have any because I don’t want them around me. You chose differently, and, hey, that’s very cool. Children are necessary to propagate the human race, and I support having them. I’m happy to be in a room with children, I’m content if they’re making noise within reason. However, that often means I’m supposed to put up with screaming, abusive, annoying brats without any quibble whatsoever simply “because they’re kids”.

Manda JO, I agree that it is polite and frequently advisable to allow people to ramble on about thier favorite subject, whether it be parenthood or, say, skiing. However, I’ve noticed that if I have let the conversation go to the point of mind-numbing boredom, it is socially acceptable for me to interrupt and say “hey, I don’t ski, so let’s talk about something we both do”, whereas the same line in reference to parenting is perceived as an insult to both parent and child. YMMV, but I think it’s this attitude that annoys people so throughly.

mischievous

15

It think the US society has had a big change in the past 30-40 years from when kids were appreciated to where they have become a terrible headache for a lot of people. I think it’s become a self-fulfilling prophecy where it’s okay to hate kids. Certainly, I’ve seen such behavior on the boards.

I live in China, and at every family event at least half of my wife’s relatives are almost coming to blows to see who can take care of the toddlers. Went to a cousin’s wedding Saturday night, and there were probably 5 elementary school age kids there. Rather than forced to sit in their chair, they got up and went out to play together at the elevator foyer. Various adults would keep a general eye on them. The kids were a little loud and wild, but they didn’t bother anyone and that is considered normal child behavior here. Of course, weddings in China are naturally pretty loud and chaotic affairs.

Societies are different. I would like to see the trend in the US return to be more accepting of children acting like, well, children.

16

Yeah, man!

mswas and Jonathan Chance, you are so right.

dragonblink: Good for you!

17

Ahhh. Two of the glories of living around midtown Manhattan: few mosquitoes and even fewer children.

[Grinny here.]

18

It’s not that I don’t like kids, I’m just darn anti-social in general. :smiley: Seriously, I am slow to warm up to people (face to face, at least) and I don’t find most kids cute. My husband will point out some kid on a commercial, and say “Now isn’t s/he cute?” and I’ll make gagging noises. Yes, I did find my own child cute, and I did and do love her…but I simply don’t find most juvenile humans to be cute. I don’t make remarks about how I hate kids in earshot of kids. And I have been known to remark to a parent that I really appreciate the well-behaved child(ren) at the next table, if I’m seated next to such a group.

However, I do resent people assuming that I will find any child adorable. I don’t. Even though I’m now of “grandmother” age (mid 40s). I expect that I will find my grandchildren, if any, to be just as cute as can be…but that doesn’t mean that I’ll automatically extend this to all children.

Now, let’s see here, I’m SURE I’ve got some plans to build a small cottage around here somewhere, and I’ve stocked up on gingerbread…

19

China Guy: One of the reasons I love eating in chinese restaurants around here is the way the waitstaff, hosts, and others treat my child.

It’s fine if people want to hate an entire group of people based on immediate judgments based on their age and appearance. I know people who hate all old people, for another example. They think they’re slow, stupid, annoying, a drag on society. They’re welcome to have their bigoted, ignorant, ugly, overgeneralized opinion.

But to say something about it? That is just rude rude rude. It says a lot about one’s character if you’re willing (or even proud) to confess prejudice against an entire type of human.

You can loathe kids all you want. You might even have some fairly good reasons. They can be loud, annoying, impulsive, and disruptive. But sheesh, who raised you if no one ever bothered to teach you that you are supposed to keep your yap shut about your prejudices?

My kid might be still too young to be perfectly behaved in your presence. But I’ll tell you one thing: he’ll be raised not to say rude things when others can be offended by them.

20

Cranky: I heartily agree!

Generally, I have no problems with kids, but I can’t stand the hyperactive kids. I also, and these go hand in hand, absolutely loathe the oblivious parent. So many times do you see parents walk into a restaurant/store with their jumpy little kid who acts as if a caffiene IV has been attached to their arm, and while their kid climbs on furniture, knocks down shelves, hurls food/other things at innocent bystanders all while shrieking the entire time, and their parents just go about their business as if the kids don’t even exist?

And now to conclude with a haiku:

Jumping Loud Children
Destruction, shrieking, clamor
Where are the parents?