I have no kids…and I fully admit there are places where kids should not be. I’m saying that these places are much fewer than most people would like.
Society seems so eager to chastise parents for bringing their kids into the public. The laughing, wailing, crying, curiousity of these kids can be really annoying.
But come on!! They’re kids! Kids have not learned to control themselves completely in public. Kids sometimes have very permissive or undisciplining parents. They make noise, look at you, explore. The world is new to them.
Even though I have no kids of my own, I like kids. If I’m in a restaurant and a kid starts making noise, it does not bother me and even if it did I would tolerate it.
Kids are a part of society and a noisy, intrusive one at that. I think people are too wanting to sweep out of sight a significant part of society. They are a integral part of society, not a isolated section of it.
Not all kids misbehave themselves. I can understand small babies crying and making noise, but 7 year-olds are perfectly capable of sitting down to eat in a resturant and not running all over the place, spilling drinks and smearing food every two seconds.
I don’t think all kids should be banned from all places, but there is a line that has to be drawn somewhere. If a baby starts crying in a theater - fine. Just take it out and calm it down. Don’t sit and continue watching the movie.
I can understand kids being excited and knocking over a drink in a resturant on accident or hurriedly going to the bathroom, but your children should not be purposefully pouring their drinks on the floor or spreading the napkins all over the table. They also should not be running around and smashing into other diners or waiters/waitresses.
The other day I was at an upscale Asian resturant and about 30% of the client were children. They were very well behaved and did not disturb the other diners in any way.
Kids are an important part of society, but as part of society, they should learn societies’ rules.
I think modern society is too kid-friendly. Children are usually seen as little angels whom everyone must adore. In the past, a misbehaving child might be repremanded by a complete stranger. Nowadays, such a thing is virtually unheard of.
For one thing, when I paid to see a movie or eat a meal in public, I do not wish someone else’s screaming infant to be a part of the experience. Once upon a time, movie theatres often had little enclosed viewing areas with plate glass, so Mom could take her unhappy baby to cool off without upsetting anyone else except other mommies and daddies and their babies. No longer. Today belongs to the Megaplex, and I have yet to see one that had a baby room.
When I was a small child, I remember being upbraided a couple of times in public by complete strangers for running around the aisles, howling like a ruptured pig. I cooled the hell out, right there. If Mom found out I’d been chewed out by someone’s granny in public, she’d have been mortified, and I’d have gotten my butt paddled later.
Nowadays, who would DARE say boo to someone else’s child in public?
When I was a social worker, I saw any number of cases where a parent was “turned in” by well-meaning strangers for swatting their child in public. If you get caught on someone’s security cam, striking your child, you could even get brought up on charges for child abuse.
We’re going to pay for this, and it will be sooner rather than later, I think.
That usually depends on where they’re taking their kids. If I’m at Bennigans, the next Pokemon movie, the mall, the Magic Kingdom, or a schoolyard then I expect to hear the normal sounds of children and it doesn’t annoy me.
When people insist on bringing their young children to a nice restaurant, the next James Bond movie, the symphony, a wedding, or a funeral and they can’t behave themselves then I get annoyed.
There isn’t much overlap between your two sets of examples. It does seem that you feel the child part of society should be isolated from the rest. I disagree.
Just because you paid for a meal doesn’t mean you should be entitled to eat it free from child noises.
There are always exceptions, of course. Also, of course, if the child is destroying property, that should be stopped. If the child is ripping your clothes off and setting them on fire, that should be stopped. Yadda yadda.
I’m talking about the attitude of being inconvenienced by noise/ activity/curiousity etc. that people seem to feel they shouldn’t have to experience by having children around.
Children, past a certain age, are like everyone else. Some are assholes, some nice. Some selfish, others compassionate. I’ve never felt the obligation to like a child just because they are children.
I’ve reprimanded children in public. Yes, parents sometimes get upset. Tough. If a child is tearing things down in a store and no parent is present, I will reprimand. I will NEVER punish. That is not my place.
Well, duh. If I go see “Pokemon: The Next Generation” or whatever, I deserve whatever I get by way of shrieking or sticky theatre seats.
When I’m in a place with a maitre 'd, and I pay $8.99 for an appetizer and am asking for a wine list, on the other hand, though, I think it’s not too much to ask that I not have to put up with someone’s colicky offspring, though, do y’think?
I agree with the OP. I feel like there are a number of people in society who feel it is okay to snarl at kids or ignore them as a way of expressing their displeasure at being forced to endure their presence. Even people who are well-meaning and kindly about children are sometimes prevented from expressing it for fear of being thought creepy, dangerous, or interfering. I really do believe “it takes a village” to raise a child optimally, but it’s a pretty small village tha seems to want to help my kid grow up to be a good human being.
I’m not a psycholigist or a child development specialist, but I can’t believe it’s a good thing for a little child to look around to try make sense of the world and see people muttering under their breath about “f*cking brats” or pretending to look the other way.
I think some of you are confusing the fact that people’s lifestyles have created more “kid-portability” with the world being more “kid-friendly.” More people take their kids more places (for a variety of reasons) but that doesn’t mean that society is kid-friendly.
What’s so inherantly wrong with ignoring strangers? I tend to ignore most people, should I now make an exception for small children, so I don’t hurt their little feelings?
On the flip side of that, strangers would often give kids candy or try to talk to friendly kids and I don’t see much of that anymore either. Too much worry about being pegged as a child molestor I guess but I think its sad that it doesn’t happen very much anymore. I think both are needed to integrate kids with more of society and teach them what kinds of behavior get rewarded and what kinds are frowned upon.
Do what you want, buddy. This isn’t personal. I’m just saying that in my opinion, a little three-year old who makes eye contact and smiles at you doesn’t have the wherewithall to figure out why you might stare right through him and pretend to not see him, rather than smile back. Are you going to damage him forever? Of course not. But it sure doesn’t make the world seem like a very kindly place to be when you’re that vulnerable.
Kids need to be exposed to a variety of public situations, precisely so they can learn how to behave in those situations. I think a few lousy parents who don’t teach their kids how to behave in public give all kids a bad rap. It’s important for kids to be in intergenerational settings, if nothing else then to teach them that the world is not all chicken nuggets and Barney videos. It especially bothers me when children are excluded from family rituals, such as funerals and weddings.
I know a 3 year old is not going to groove on a night at the symphony, and it would, IMO, be inappropriate for them to be there. But a 7 year old might, particularly if Mom or Dad teaches the kid how to behave in that situation.
If this is true, then the restaurant should have put it on a sign on the front door so people like me (who aren’t even sure kids should be seen, much less heard) know to avoid it. When you go to a nice restaurant, you’re often paying for the experience in addition to the food. If the restaurant is, say, next door to a landfill or directly under a jackhammer retail outlet, I’m not going to go there, not even for takeout.
Back in the day, it was more permissable to reprimand children. The saying “children are to be seen, not heard” was also favored more in those times. Nowadays, it is less permissable to reprimand children, and the old saying about not being heard is being phased out. What’s the cost-benefit ratio here?
Yes, children will be children and they shouldn’t be treated like undesirables simply for being themselves. But I think it’s okay to voice objections to ill-mannered children.
The way I see it, society has both overly negative and overly positive reactions to kids. When I see kids running around and making a racket in public, I wonder where the parents are and what they’re doing about it. On the other hand, if I see a parent openly yelling at a child or even spanking them, it makes me sick to my stomach. I believe that parents should teach their children to be well-behaved, but they shouldn’t be TOO strict. If you’re going to take your 5-year-old to the supermarket, encourage him to stay by the cart, keep his voice down, and even help pick items out. Nothing bores kids more than being taken places where they have nothing to do, which is why many of them misbehave. Kids are often excluded from public activities, and they get antsy when they’re bored. I’m 19, so I haven’t forgotten what being a kid is like (some people still treat me as a kid, especially people who think I’m 11 because I’m so short). My parents raised me to be polite and quiet, and I was fairly polite and quiet as a child (of course, I wasn’t diagnosed with Tourette syndrome until I was 15, so I did have some behavioral problems). But I learned that being a good kid is much more beneficial than being a troublemaker.
Anyway, people should know that there are places where young kids just shouldn’t be (fancy restaurants with no kids menus, gyms, antique shops, etc.). If you’re taking the family out to dinner, go to a family restaurant that hands out colorable kids menus and crayons (I still get the kids menu all the time when I’m with my family, but I like coloring so I don’t mind). There are also babysitters. For six or seven dollars an hour (I really don’t know what they charge these days - my neighbors just hand me a 20 or something) you can do whatever the heck you want without worrying about the kids.
If I wanted to eat with the noises and distractions of children around I would have a few of my own.
I dont blame the kids though , I blame the parents. When I was little my brother and I sat and ate in silence or we were taken into the bathroom for an “attitude adjustment”. Now parents dont see anything wrong with their little monsters running around and shrieking where ever they are. Unfortunately if you say something to the parents they give you the hairy eyeball instead of showing a little common courtesy. Rotten kids are produced by rotten parents.
I think that society is pretty kid unfriendly. However, before I explain why, I’d like to say that I think it’s reasonable to go to a good restaurant and expect not to see screaming kids there. If the kids are there, and they are well behaved, odds are you won’t even notice them. However, just as there should be places where kids can go and be themselves, there should also be places where adults shouldn’t have to be on the lookout for kids.
However, I think society oftentimes eliminates kid friendly activities unless there is a profit motive. For instance Chuck E. Cheese and Disneyland will always be around. They rake in the cash. But skate parks close down regularly, and teenagers especially get harassed when they are out in the streets alone.
And I don’t think it’s appropriate to hit your children ever for whatever reason. Just as with an adult, physical violence means that you have come to a point where there is no logical solution to your frustration, and just as in adult situations there is ALWAYS a preferrable alternative. Just because you don’t know what it is, doesn’t make hitting your child appropriate, especially not the particularly humiliating “public beating”. I see people scream and and sometimes hit their children on the subway, and the only thing that stops me from screaming at the parents, is the inevitable “Look at what you made happen to me on the subway” beating the kid will get at home. And I don’t think that beating is warranted just cuz the kid wouldn’t stop pushing his cars across the subway floor.