Do your goddamn progressive parenting at home.

The BBQ Pit
1

I can’t fucking beleive it. I stopped in a great little pizza joint for a couple of slices for lunch today. It’s a small place, mostly carry-out, with a small seating area. As I was eating, a family came in: mom, dad, two boys (looked to be twins) about 6 years old, and a little kid, maybe 2 years old.

One of the boys started whining. The whining escalated. Pretty soon he was crying–that outraged I’m - not - getting - whatever - my - widdle - heart - desires wailing. The parents did nothing. They ignored the kid, conversing occasionally with his brother, who was just looking bored at the whole scene.

The kid’s crying set off the little kid, who began crying, too. Not tantrum-crying, but what’s - all - this - noise, I’m - freaked - out crying.

The parents continued to do nothing. They didn’t try to comfort the little kid. They didn’t tell the big kid to shut the hell up and act his age. They didn’t take either kid outside where their wailing would not reverberate throughout the small shop. They didn’t ask the pizza guy for boxes and take their meal to go.

The big kid was screaming over and over again, “I want to go home!” The little kid was screaming over and over again, “Ma-ma! Ma-ma!”

Conversation became difficult. I was alone, but the couple at the next table had to raise their voices to make themselves heard.

This went on for ten fucking minutes. I kid you not. Then suddenly the big kid cut it out, like there was some prearranged signal. One second, he’s giving his lungs the full workout, the next he’s quietly and contentedly munching on a peice of pizza. The little kid quit when his brother stopped, looked around, confused, for a little while, then began gnawing the piece of crust his mother offered him.

Great jiminy-jumpin’ ghost of Jesus fucking Christ on a popsicle stick! What is the goal here? Is this some part of a plan for raising sensitive, responsible children? The result had better be fucking hyper-intelligent wonder-geniuses of surpassing artistic talent and Betazoid-level empathic perceptions, because in the meantime, you look like a couple of ill-mannered, inconsiderate, irresponsible, wussy-assed, jerkoff hippies. Neither I nor the other people trying to enjoy our pizza signed up to be part of your little experiment in child-rearing.

If your kids have problems, and under the advice of some professional head-shrinker you can’t yell at them or, apparently, enforce discipline in any fucking way, then fucking deal with it in private. Pick up the goddamn pizza and take it home with you, let your kids scream their heads off there!

Aside from my aching eardrums, it’s the kids I feel sorry for. Who the hell knows, maybe they’ll grow up prefectly normal, or maybe they’ll end up spoiled brats or fucking psychopaths–but for now, they have no idea how to behave appropriately when there are other people around!

There is just no fucking excuse. If your kids cannot behave in public, or they can behave, but you’re not willing to make sure they do, then, when it’s not absolutely necessary, don’t bring them the fuck out in public and inflict them on polite members of motherfucking society!

2
  1. Sometimes, the best thing you can do about a misbehaving child is to ignore him. Even angry attention is still attention.
  2. If the kid is beating someone up, throwing things or inconveniencing a whole roomful of innocent bystanders, it’s not one of those times.
3

Hey, what happened to my italics?

4

As far as I can tell, italics don’t work in the subject line (either for posts or new threads.)

If we threw a tantrum in public, our mom would drag us out to the car and ignore us there. : )

5

Well, good for your parents.

The kid would have been ignored by me. The baby, on the other hand, would have been comforted. And there are not two styles of parenting-- one for in front of company and one for at home.

Maybe, if my kid was being really obnoxious, I’da sent him to the bathroom to whine to his hearts content.
Of course the parents could have jack-slapped the pesky little whiner to make you happy.

6

C’mon, biggie. Would you have ignored your kid if he started a loud temper tantrum in a movie theater? In church?
I don’t think that taking the kid outside and then letting him whine all he wants would have sent a mixed signal.

Sua

7

Maybe not, but there is (or should be) a difference in behavior when you are in a public place as opposed to when you are slobbing around in your own environment. When you are in an environment that is shared by other people you must be respectful of thier rights. I think about 6 is damn old enough to learn that lesson, and I wish it would catch on with more adults, too.

8

True, OR they could have put the mouthy brat on in the pizza oven as a sacrifice to Baal.

:rolleyes:

Or, if we can try to stick to the rational and avoid stupid straw-man arguments, let me suggest that one option that’s actually healthy and educational for the kid would be for one of the parents to take the offending kid outside the resturant and deal with him there (including, if that’s your parenting philosophy, letting the kid whine to his heart’s content outside), rather than inconvening everyone else because the parents are too stupid or lazy to teach their kid how to behave properly.

Every decent person understands that children whine, make noise and make messes in inappropriate places (and any person that made a comment or gave a “look” as a parent took a child outside to deal with the viscissitudes of child-rearing would, in my book be a jerk.) And every decent person who’s a parent tries to minimize the degree to which those unavoidable incidences affect strangers.

Did you read Poddy’s OP? We’re not talking about a kid who yelled once, or cried for a minute or so. We’re talking a 10 minute tantrum in a resturant where others are trying to enjoy themselves.

Simply ignoring Young Lochnivar screaming his lungs out for 10 minutes in a resturant is simply lazy and obnoxious. If I’d been the owner of the resturant, I’d have thrown the assholes out.

Fenris

9

Hey I’m confused here! I’m used to being bitched at for paying too much attention to my kids’s feelings! Us progressive parents are more usually harassed for not ignoring our screaming kids.

They don’t sound ‘progressive’ to me. They sound like neglectful rude parents.

10

Please point out where I said in the OP, or, indeed, where I’ve said anywhere, in any context, at any time, that any child should be struck. Please explain what I have said that makes you think that it would make me happy to see anyone inflict pain on a child.

11

Yes, my kid did have a few (not many) tantrums in public. Once, when my son was three, he threw himself on the floor in a supermarket. I walked away. Left him on the floor to the shocked dismay of many shoppers.

Whining because they can’t have something? I tell they can’t have it. End of story. The whining gets too obnoxious? Go to the bathroom and whine your heart out.

But I will not change my parenting style to please perfect strangers in a restaurant.

Oh, and reasoning with a child in a temper tantrum works. Sure! “Let’s go outside, Timmy and talk about your behavior.” It does not work when the child is in the middle of a tantrum.

If a child whining in a restaurant drives everyone to such distraction that they feel the kid should never be seen in public, well then, we will have to disagree.

And no Podkayne, you did not say the child should be struck. But I’ve heard it said about crying, whining children who happen to have the nerve to act like a child in public. And your tone sure did suggest it to me.

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Biggirl, let’s start with basic premises. You’re in church, and your nine-month old starts to cry loudly. Do you carry your baby out to the foyer to comfort/feed/whatever the child, or do you remain in your pew? You, of course, walk carry the kid to the foyer.

Why do you do that? Not because of parenting technique, but because your child’s crying is a distraction/annoyance to the minister and/or the congregation, and you have respect for those around you.

Why should respect for others disappear because the kid is a little older and you wish to establish that temper tantrums will not be effective?

But when you get right down to it, you and Podykane (and me) aren’t all that far apart. You said that if your kid was being really obnoxious, you’d send them to the bathroom. I’d define the ten minutes of non-stop screaming endured by Podykane as “really obnoxious”.

Sua

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speaking as Baal’s representative on Earth, he prefers his mouthy brats slightly undercooked- He likes 'em chewy.

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Heretic. Obviously, you follow the false doctrine of “He likes 'em chewy”. I am a member of the “Extra Crispy. Hold the Pickles” Church. The One True Faith.

You Schism-ist

Fenris

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Oh yeah, meant to add:

And for preaching your false doctrine, the Horned One will Eat Your Soul (after roasting it Extra Crispy, of course!)

High Priest Fenris

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Children flambe*’*, Timmy Tartare, or Christopher extra-crispy, they all taste like chicken to me.
And Biggirl, if you’re willing to admit that reasoning with an unruly child works just as well inside as outside, then what’s the difference if the child throws the tantrum inside or outside other than in one scenario you have to inconvenience yourself and in the other you inconvenience those around you?

17

Are we talking about an unruly child or a child in the throes of a tantrum?

Are we speaking of my parenting practices or those parents in the OP? Like I said, I ignore them, or if the get too obnoxious I send them away telling them that nobody wants to hear that mess. But that’s me.

I also don’t go around saying “If that was my kid I’d. . … Why my parents would never blah, blah. . …”

Actually that’s not true. When I see a parent yelling at, shaking or smacking small children who are have tantrums in public I always think about how all that happened was the incident escalated. And that’s all that happens, both parent and child get more and more out of control.
Would I have handled the situation differently than the OP parents? I dunno, I wasn’t there, but my 5 or 6 year old telling me repeatedly that he wants to go home is no big deal. My 5 or 6 year old screaming and crying at the top of his lungs is another matter entirely.

18

Before we start berating the parents for being “bad” parents or start throwing kids in ovens, maybe we should realize that we just don’t have enough information to judge the situation apart from our own discomfort. It’s entirely possible that the kid was psychologically handicapped in some way. Since he was able to calm himself down pretty much automatically, it seems like it to me. And maybe the parents just got tired of sitting at home stymied because they were afraid of what might happen if they decided to go out and have a nice night with the family or how some assholes might judge them if the child did decide to act up. Maybe knowing what might happen if they went out they were under enough pressure trying to deal with the situation as it is. And maybe they decided to try to have at least one night out in spite of it all.

I sure hope my kids don’t have to be housebound to conform to the demands of your “motherfucking society.”

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But Euty, none of the things you listed precludes the parent taking the kid outside or into the bathroom.

Like I said: it’s incumbent upon members of society to deal with kids acting out. The only way kids’ll learn is if they’re given the opportunity. But taking a kid to a private area (outside, a restroom, etc), be he in the throws of a tantrum or having a full-fledged Tourette’s Syndrome episode to help the kid deal with the issue[sup]*[/sup], both to help the kid calm down/recover and in courtesy to the other patrons isn’t unreasonable either.

Fenris

[sup]*[/sup] And before anyone jumps on me regarding the Tourette’s comment, the little I’ve read (following Dr Laura’s debacle) suggests that stress, embarassment, etc. can exacerbate an episode and that going someplace private to calm down can help end the episode.

20

Yes, I’ll agree that more than even one minute in a public place would have been my limit for getting the little blighter out of there. Courtesy is an important thing to me, and I want it to be to my children as well. However, BigGirl and Euty have a point — this may actually have been the best course for this particular kid.

Sometimes tantrums are when kids genuinely are out of control, and don’t know how to stop themselves; sometimes, they’re power plays. With this particular kid, forcing Mom and Dad to leave the restaurant may have been a “victory” for the kid, and they needed to reinforce that his bad behavior wouldn’t get him what he wanted. (Still, since there were two parents there, as a kindness to others, I would have recommended having one parent take screaming child outside to scream long enough for the other parent to eat a slice of pizza, and then have the parents trade off, etc.)

Fortunately, I haven’t had tantrum throwers. Sometimes, though, my kids get to the whiny stage (which I detest.) If you see a Mom with a whiny kid in tow who replies to his whining by saying in a flat voice “I don’t listen to whining children. Whining will never get you what you want,” that’s me. It doesn’t necessarily stop the whining, but it keeps a consistent line going, and may eventually sink in.

At the risk of sounding like a ridiculously smug parent, how many of you “How dare they…” folks have actually had children yourself? I was quite the expert on childraising, and how my sister and others were blowing it with their kids back when I was young and single. Once I had kids of my own, I learned just how much I still have to learn. Even having the on-the-job training of a first child doesn’t necessarily fully prepare you for the next, since each child is a unique adventure.

Sorry your lunch was ruined, Podkayne