Do your goddamn progressive parenting at home.

The BBQ Pit
21

Aw c’mon, Euty.

Who was being the asshole(s) in the OP scenario?

Remove wailing children from the equation. If you are going into a public place, where it is a given that people are seeking quiet, peaceful enjoyment, and paying money to do so, it is incumbent upon you to ensure that you and yours don’t fuck that up for them.

A temporary problem? Hey, we’re reasonable people. It happens. A prolonged problem, in which you blatantly fail to take action to correct the situation for the benefit of those around you? You’ve entered the asshole realm.

I think it has less to do with goofy parenting, and more to do with the erosion of common courtesy. (Although I’ve known some of those parents who don’t do a thing while their kid screams, hits other people, and otherwise acts like an obnoxious little shit. It’s quite irritating.)

22

I’m the parent of two boys diagnosed on the autistic spectrum. One of them was a horrendous tantrum thrower. In the situation described I would have taken him outside the restaurant and traded off with my partner until he was able to cope. I know exactly what Euty is saying though about the pressure WRT kids like ours but my personal enjoyment would be destroyed by listening to my kid carry on.

However in other circs I do fucking expect the world to bend the fucking rules for kids like mine. I don’t intend to raise my kids in a barrel because they don’t behave like the kids next door. I’ll deal to a tantrum because that’s the right thing to do. 2 minutes of a tantrum in a public place is one thing - 10 minutes is not reasonable behaviour by the parents.

And I know it’s sometimes bloody awful to have to deal with tantrum of the day one hundred and one. And if those parents were totally burnt out then my heart aches for them but at the same time I’ve got sympathy for the other patrons of the restaurant.

23

Have to agree with Podkayne - it’s an outrageous lack of consideration by the parents, and something that’s not going to teach their child how to behave around others.

I don’t think being upset by the parental behavior translates to wanting the kids to be housebound. It’s most likely a case of parents not wanting to be housebound due to badly raised or chronically misbehaving children, and saying in effect, “We have to put up with this all the time, who cares about you offended movie/restaurant patrons?”

I try to keep this in mind when dolts take their kids out for a free-form screech fest. I may be annoyed temporarily, but it’s you who’ll have to take the little bastards home.

24

You know those little airhorns. The kind with compressed air that they use on boats or by obnoxious assholes that always sit behind you at the football games.

Well that’s what it’s like, when a screeching sprog is present, hypersonic screeches being blown into your ear.

I must agree, this is only a matter of consideration for your fellow diners or what not, take the kid OUTSIDE.

Let him/her throw the tantrum there. Other people DO NOT want to listen to it. I have a son who is thankfully beyond that age, but I always took into account the discomfort of my fellow humans. So please, be considerate of them and you will not get so many ‘death glares’.

25

Well, I am currently raing two sons with autism, one with a severe obsessive component, and believe me, ten minutes is nothing. We’ve had situations where my son has gotten himself into a state where he’s had to be physically restained for hours. And sometimes the only way to deal with it in public most of the time is to ignore it. Even trying to remove them from the situation puts them in the position of power and pretty much gives them what they want.

I’m sorry you have to deal with me being an “asshole” for ten minutes. Try dealing with it for a lifetime. Try living every single fucking minute of your life not knowing when something like this is going to erupt. And then maybe put yourself in the parents shoes and consider that maybe they deserve just a little consideration for the hell they have to go through every second of their lives.

If the situation is as I described (and I’ll grant that it’s a big “if”) then they deserve a big credit for even trying to go out. It’s too bad that some people can’t see beyond their temporary discomfort to realize that for some people it’s not temporary.

26

I’ll leave it to you to explain why YOUR problems must be inflicted on the rest of us.

27

Because my kid are as much a part of society as you are and I refuse to put them away for your convenience. And because they deal with other kids like this all the time they’ve learned to be tolerant of their friends who have the same type of problems … much more so than apparently some in “polite” society.

28

Simply because you live in a society with other people and not everyone is going to conform to your standards. Are you really self-centered and arrogant enough to believe otherwise? Your entire life will be spent having to deal with other people’s problems whether you want to or not. You are free to rant about them as the OP did. You are free to seethe about it and get pissed off about it. However, what it comes down to is that you will just have to fucking deal with it. It’s not that other people’s problems must be inflicted on everyone else, it’s just a simple fact that they will be and you will have to live with it.

29

… and I’m still looking for an answer as to how removing the child who has disrupted an entire restaurant for 10 minutes = keep the kid locked in a room at home, out of sight and mind for the rest of the world.

Real big leap being taken there.

And evilbeth? I agree that nowadays, people are not going to conform to “my” societal standards. But it seems to me that not too long ago, not allowing a prolonged, full-blown freakout by a child in a restaurant, church, movie theater or similar situation was society’s standard.

30

Well, it’s a full spectrum here. I’d have removed the child. However, and it’s a huge however, I’ve worked with emotionally disturbed/mentally retarded children. One cannot assume that this is an unusual incident. That kid,and his parents, have a right to THEIR pizza too. Difference here is that you as an adult are free to take your pizza and go, and they are not in all likelihood, with three small kids to deal with.

One can’t very well approach that parent in mid-tantrum and say, " By any chance is your child autistic or emotionally disturbed? If so, then you have my sympathies. If not, then would you kindly take your child out of here? " You either let the parents handle the child as THEY SEE FIT ( yeah, I do love you Biggirl ), or ignore it as best as you can. Until you or another patron is physically confronted or injured by that child ( at which point all social norms are set aside, and you do what you have to to insure your- and the child’s-safety), you have to simply let them parent the child.

Kids don’t belong in barrels, to paraphrase another poster here. Perhaps that child will learn to be more socially appropriate. That’s why they’re called kids, man. If the parent wishes to removed said child, cool. If not, then be an adult and kwitcherbitchin’, and eatcher pizza. It’s not the fucking Tavern On The Green for god’s sake. ( Crappy restaurant, but a known name ).

Cartooniverse

31

I’ve got to wonder just how long it had been since those parents had acutally been out. Perhaps they hadn’t been in a while. Perhaps it was as Euty and a few others have said: the kid’s got a problem. Perhaps they’ve been staying home for sake of society. And perhaps they’d just decided hey, he’s been calm lately, let’s give going out a try.

So the kid has a temper tantrum. And ten minutes later–*ten minutes–*it’s over.

Perhaps now the parents are saying “Whew! Only ten minutes this time! Maybe we can actually start going out in public again as a family!”

Perhaps I’m also talking completely out of my ass. We have no idea what caused that tantrum. We don’t know that these are the Parents From Heaven or the Parents from Hell. If it had been me, I’d have taken my child outside (and yes, I’ve got kids, two of them). But I also know that my kids don’t have any other problems, like Euty’s do. I have taken my kids outside. And that’s worked, for me.

It could also be that the kid is just fine, but just impatient for his pizza. Kids that young have no concept of time. Five minutes might as well be forever. Could be that he shut up when the pizza got there, simply because, well, because the pizza got there. Maybe he learned a lesson–that the pizza will get there, whether he screams or not. And maybe next time, he won’t scream.

Fact is, we don’t know squat about that kid or his family. No one asked. Because we’d rather bitch about a stranger’s parenting style than inquire about a stranger’s problems.

32

I’m not going to take sides - I don’t have enough information on the situation to make a claim as to who may be right, and who may be wrong.

All I’m going to say is this: Until you are a parent, you can say “Oh, my child will NEVER do that! I won’t let him/her!”… but once you have them, you learn that that’s all fine and dandy, but darn far from reality.

What I’d like to know is: how would you have reacted if that child was autistic, or if he had had DS? What then? Do parents with children with disabilities, or children who have behavioral problems (maybe the child you saw actually suffered from an emotional or psychological problem? who knows?) have to stay at home? I seem to recall a number of pit rants about a certain Dr. Laura and her thoughts on the matter…

Anyhow - I’m sorry your lunch wasn’t as quiet as you would have liked it to be. You had a right to your calm and tranquility. Always keep in mind, however, that there may be details you’re not aware of… and, had you known, you wouldn’t have reacted this way.

[story with a moral ahead…]
A little girl I work with was out one day with her mom. The child is 8 years old. She has a medical condition. She looks rather normal. While they were out, a well-meaning bystander told the mother, “That child’s old enough to be walking by herself! My child’s 4 and doesn’t need a stroller!”

The mother turned around and quietly replied, “She has tumours at the base of her spine, I’m not sure if she’ll survive her surgery next month…” and walked away.

I am sure this person thinks twice, now, about ranting…

[/story with a moral]

Best to all,

Elly

33

Ordinarily, I’d say remove the kid. Oh, I am gonna get so flamed for this post, but so what.

Like it or not, society has standards of conduct. Letting a child scream in a restaurant and completely ignoring it is both rude and inconsiderate. If he can’t handle himself in public, he shouldn’t be in public. That simple.

One quote from cartooniverse: “That kid,and his parents, have a right to THEIR pizza too.” Agreed. However, the rest of us have the right to peace and quiet. I just had a thought–don’t most restauraunts have “crying rooms” now? Just brainstorming. :slight_smile:

Former US President Ronald Reagan is in an institution right now. Why? Because he has Alzheimer’s and can no longer cope in our society. He’s lucky that way–as a former US President, he has enough clout to get the best care available in the US. But what about the rest of us?

A quote from Eutychus55: “Because my kid are as much a part of society as you are and I refuse to put them away for your convenience.” I don’t know about your kids, nor do I pretend to know, but some kids do need hospitialisation. Pour on the emotion all you like–that’s just the way it is. If you can’t handle the load–again, I’m not saying that you personally can’t hack it–get help from someone who can. Don’t you think that such children would be better off being cared for by trained professionals? IANAL, but if a special needs kid is REALLY messed up, a judge can order confinement (not sure about that, though). Whether you like it or not, you don’t have the right to allow your child to be disruptive. Accept it.

IMO, this is a case where emotion has come in so strong, it’s impossible for each side to really hear what the other is saying. Can we try to put aside the emotion and look at the facts? You can’t debate emotion, as that can go all over the map, but facts/logic don’t.

Full Disclosure: I was a total brat when I was a kid. I bet a lot of Dopers were, too. :wink: I had/still have ADHD, but it seems to have subsided for the most part. Even to this day, following a simple list of instructions is a pain in the ass for me. My heart goes out to the parents of those kids–God knows I couldn’t hack it.

34

Father Pacelli:

What good would hospitalization do for the problems that Euty’s kids have? They get the care that they need from their parents and their doctors. Hospitalization, in Euty’s kids’ case, wouldn’t do much of anything except get the kids out of sight. And that is just not reason enough.

35

Can’t we just raise children in pods or something (barrels are so 18th century)? I’m pretty sure it’s technologically feasible now, and we wouldn’t have to sacrifice them to Baal…

36

No, son. Read again. Both of my kids go to special schools and have after-school staffing to help them cope with things. Sean has been in the hospital twice. The goal of hospitalization is to keep them out of the already over-crowded hospitals. A tantrum is not a call for hospitalization. The problem isn’t that I can’t hack it, the problem is that you can’t.

Then don’t even begin to try to tell those of us who can how to manage things.

37

I wasn’t talking about Euty’s kids specifically, and I believe I made that clear enough in my post. I meant mentally disabled kids in general. Some kids really do need to be hospitalised.

Next time, read the post just a bit more carefully, okay? :rolleyes:

38

Watch it, Euty…your moderator hat does NOT give you the right to call me “son”. You will call me by my screen name, or you will not address me at all. Get it?

Read the post again. I never targeted you personally. I was speaking of handicapped children in general. I was NOT directing anything towards you personally.

You respect me; I’ll respect you. If you want to be an asshole, go right ahead. Flame me and get flamed back. Respect is earned, babe, and I have no respect for you at this point. Get past it.

I could rant on and on, but you’re not worth it. I was respectful to you; you chose to be an asshole to me. Therefore, you get no further respect until and unless you apologize to me.

See you in the next life. :rolleyes:

39

So, to use your same logic, I should be allowed to smoke anywhere I goddamn want to, and a hearty fuck-all to everyone else who doesn’t like it!

40

Once my son’s behavior becomes as damaging to your health like your smoke probably is (and that’s another argument altogether) then we can talk.