So what? Parents are just as prone to the “things were better when I was a …” brand of fuddy-ness as others.
Then it could be equally true that you are experiencing some serious confirmation bias wrt your perception of children. You hate them, therefore you see bad kids everywhere. It’s as likely as me being in denial, which I’m not. I teach middle school, and I see children behaving badly on a daily basis, far, FAR more often than you do, and somehow I cannot dismiss them as an entire class of people. Maybe it’s not that I’m in denial. Maybe I’m simply more tolerant than you are. I do not tolerate unreasonable or out of control behavior, but I do recognize that everyone has a bad day and acts wrong sometimes. I don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater, as it were.
Ah, then you admit the possibility that you are seeing things through your own distorted lens, and that your POV on kids is not the definitive truth on them any more than mine is.
OK, you’re acting like an asshole. The kids are acting like heathens. No one should be offended by that, then. No bridling allowed.
You can describe them accurately, or you can color them with overly negative and alienating terms. Your choice, but then please own the reception that your words get, which has been overwhelmingly negative. If you want to get a valid point across, not being an asshole about it does go a long way towards getting people to listen to you. Unlike the children in question, you CAN control what you say and how you say it. That you choose not to or are unable to control your tone here might lead a more reflective person to feel camaraderie with children.
“Misbehaving” is a descriptor of behavior. “Uncivilized” is a value judgment. I feel OK describing the behavior. Unlike you, I don’t think I have enough information about a kid in a store to make a value judgment. They might just be having a bad day.
This entire thread is my cite. And yes, there is a difference between getting upset and being hostile. Some people are negative and hostile by nature, and behave that way whether they’re upset or not. Are you one of those people?
You’re the one who believes in foregoing nuance, right? So where’s the grey area? You can be positive, warm, and gracious when discussing things that bother you and that you wish would change. It’s possible not to alienate people with whom you’re debating. You choose not to do that.
They are as human as you are, so sorry if that bothers you. That they are undeveloped is a tautology, but I think EVERYONE is undeveloped, as we are all learning and we all fuck up from time to time. Since I am not perfect, I don’t demand perfection from children of all people.
Please show anywhere that anyone has claimed that parents don’t need to supervise their children. I certainly haven’t.
I’m not sensitive. You asked for a cite of when you were being insulting or belitting. I found the closest one and pointed it out to you, and of course you have to spend multiple posts disingenuously explaining why it’s not insulting (your reason? because it’s true, of course!). I did not mention it because I’m sensitive to it but only in direct response to your request for that cite.
Ah, sorry, no, wrong. YOU are the one who is saying someone is “always” anything. I don’t agree with that, but have made no absolutist statements. Your posts are littered with them because you are not interested in nuance, by your own admission. Either you hate kids and see them in a negative light, or you think they are angels who must only be spoken of in the mildest terms. No middle ground for ol’ curlcoat. It’s hilarious, because as a teacher, I am very aware of bad behavior and spend an awful lot of my time correcting it and railing against it. I’m someone who’d generally agree with you about kids needing to be reined in, except that you are so negative, so hostile, and so absolutist, that I just can’t.
So you wouldn’t say to a parent’s face that their kid is being uncivilized? You can only bitch about it anonymously on a message board? No wonder you’re so hostile, with all that rage bottled up and too much of a gutless wonder to say it anywhere but here.
See, I think it’s YOU who keeps misunderstanding. I understand your POV and agree with it in part. It’s the blanket condemnation and the vituperation that I can’t get behind.
So it’s only you and those who agree with you that can see the truth?
:dubious::rolleyes:
I, and those who agree with me, are not attempting to insist that entire classes of humans behave a certain (bad) way.
First, I never said they didn’t, what I said was…
The thing you’re missing is that unless I see that kid every single day, that one melt down is all I’m ever going to see, therefore I can only judge or define that child by my only interaction. Again, I’m not against witnessing ‘misbehavior’ shit happens, it’s when that misbehavior turns into destruction of property or has a demonstrable effect (other than annoyance) on me that I object. I further object when milquetoast parents do NOTHING to address the misbehavior and allow the crap to continue. Every parent I’ve encountered in these scenarios who has been in the process of addressing the problem, has gotten a pass from me. It’s the ones who don’t seem to notice or care their child is being a rabid little wolverine in the middle of the fucking target that pisses me off.
As far as being a ‘full paricipants’ we disagree, they’re spectators at best. Yep, they’re people and deserve full human rights (food, clothing, protection from harm, general freedom as granted by their caretakers etc) but societally, I have more rights than an 8 year old does. Sorry, just facts. Further, they don’t have the power to reason or to control certian impulses, that’s why you as parents exist.
As far as the ‘cult of the child’ it’s an absolutely observable thing. The pendulum has swung from the hardline parenting style of parents of the baby-boomers to the boomers having kids and letting them be “free to be themselves” instead of giving the instruction and guidance that kids NEED. It’s only now that, generally, kids and parents are going the other way.
Nobody who’s got even an ounce of common sense would argue against the rights of children or the people who justly fight for them. That said, the child does not have MORE rights than the adult, nor are they equals.
Yes. With a limit on the crying part, as I said.
In some ways, they do have more rights, because society as a whole feels responsible for their well-being in a way that it does not towards adults. They have greater access to free medical care, free education, and if they are not fed or clothed or housed adequately, someone will get in trouble. Not so for adults. The world censors itself on behalf of children in a way that it does not for adults. A person not eligible for alimony can receive child support from a former partner, sometimes even if that partner is not the child’s parent. Parents get tax breaks because they have children.
I think these extra rights and considerations are part of why some people are so angry about children and hate them. Some see it as unfair, though I would point out that they and their parents benefited from them when they were children, so it is, in fact, fair.
I also have to question this idea that anyone is saying that children should be allowed to scream without reaction or correction, should be allowed to destroy property, trespass in your yard, etc. Of course that’s wrong. Generally, when kids are doing that, I blame the parents. They are the ones falling down on the job. I can totally see hating neglectful parents, or overly indulgent ones. God knows I encounter enough of them in my line of work, and I tend to feel pity towards their children, who after all are relying on these adults to teach them right from wrong. I think people who hate kids are blaming the victim. The kid is only able to learn what he is taught.
What difference does that make? I can assure you that they have been kids nevertheless.
No I didn’t
Not all of us, but at at least somebody, and that’s the point. So this single person which has raised this child which will take care of you (if that shall be needed), can’t be so selfish, isn’t it?
I don’t know why I keep reading. How many, three? posters denying the humanity of children. Equating them with chimps? Maintaining that “unsocialized” means not human.
This is pure crazy and I can’t read this shit any more.
fistbumps Ellen
Nobody is a full participant until they’re adults. Including you. I don’t know why that concept is so hard for people to grasp. First you’re dependent, then you’re not, then you are again. That’s called life.
Don’t forget equating them with dogs and tuna sandwiches.
The reason you keep reading is probably the same reason I keep reading; at some point I expect the professed child-haters (especially the seemingly insane one…the one who imagines her/his/it’s dogs should have the same rights as young humans) to pop up and write, “Nahhhh, just fucking with you! I don’t feel that way at all; really, what normal person could? I’m not really a rabid, sociopathic shithead; I’m a student working on my Masters in Sociology and all of my comments were intended to shock you into reacting. Sorry to have offended.”
At least I keep hoping…
I kow how you feel. It is like picking at a scab - you know it is bad for you, but there is a certain facination in seeing what seeps out. 
Poor dear.
You really are campaigning hard to be the leader of the junior bitch brigade, aren’t you?
I guess you are right, you and I will never agree. I find it hard to believe that you are disabled if you can drive 16 hours, handle a dog and get other things done in a single day, but are unable to work. You have proven in this thread that you are capable of “keypunching”.
Oh holy shit, I’m sorry… I had no idea that we weren’t allowed to having differing opinions here in The Pit. I mean, I realize that I’ve just been really over the top with my opinions and ideas in this thread to the point of downright hysteria so OF COURSE you’d think that.
Are you always this delicate?
Not sure where you get hysterical? And where, exactly have I said that you can’t have a differing opinion? You don’t seem to have any opinion at all on the topic at hand, but throw your judgements in about how opinions are expressed. Thanks, mommy, but the kids are grown now. We don’t need a referee.
I’m starting to see why you like children so much. You do a great impression of one.
Yes, I’d like you to point out where I’ve gotten hysterical. I’d also like a few examples of where I’ve thrown judgements out. That would be super!
I’ve expressed my opinion in several places in this thread so your odd comment about me not having an opinion makes me question just how carefully you’ve read the comments here. Maybe reading just isn’t first class enough for you.
If you can’t come up with examples of me being hysterical or judgemental maybe you could just regale us with more “first class” stories of you and your moppet and his foie gras tastes. You could sprinkle in some tales of how wherever you take him the staff never wants him to leave! I like a good fairy tale before bed.
Please, impress me some more.
Sleeps with butterflies and curlcoat could you please ask your mothers to post their step by step parenting tips here because I would LOVE to be able to raise a bitter, twisted, intolerent person and your parents certainly did that well.
Thank you 