But that is basically what some parents (the bad ones) are asking society to do! That is, they find having to deal with the duties of parenting annoying and inconvenient (as demonstrated by way of their insisting upon bringing them to inappropriate places, or not disciplining them properly in public), so they insist everyone else reshape their lives, wants and peace of mind around how THEY decide they will parent.
As I’ve shared before, I have two kids, a boy in his late teens, and a daughter who is pushing 30. I have an adorable granddaughter by way of my own adorable daughter. So I know the difference between “toddler having an unavoidable hissy fit when you’re trying to grab some diapers and formula” and “actively ignoring and allowing one’s children to behave however they want in a place you do not *need *to be”.
The OP and some of the other posters are trying to make it sound as if the two are one and the same. Come ON! You (collective you parents you:D) know the difference and so do those of us out in society. That is where the annoyance from the public comes in, when we see and know that the screaming brat is a product of irresponsible parenting, and that the parent is not doing a single thing to correct the issue.
As do I–I think I’ve said this explicitly twice so far in this thread.
My job makes me familiar with this difference on a daily basis, believe me. I am not excusing sloppy parenting. I am saying that morons who talk about hating kids and offer platitudinal childrearing advice blah blah blah are morons.
Nothing would get done if the world catered to those who found certain sounds to be unbearable. How is the parent supposed to keep the appointment she made with a contractor if she’s spending her afternoon holed up in a grocery store restroom? What if there’s someone in the bathroom that also gets annoyed by the sound of a crying child? There are situations where a crying kid is not acceptable; the theater, an adult-oriented restaurant, etc. The grocery store is not one of those places. Go ahead and be annoyed (we all are), but the parent isn’t breaking any social contract by continuing to shop for fruit roll-ups and pot roast while the child is throwing a fit.
When I see someone with the screen name starwarsfreak complaining about children I get the mental picture of someone who is bitter about his inability to get laid. I’m probably way off.
As a parent who had kids a bit later in life, I remember the days before having them when I got annoyed by the behavior of some kids, particularly in restaurants. The truth is that some of these behavior issues are the as much the parents’ fault as the kids, so “hating” the kids seems irrational to me. I always was more annoyed with the parent(s). That being said, if you are at a kid-friendly restaurant, and that includes most of the popular chain restaurants in the U.S., and are there before 8:00 PM, you should fully expect that some noise and disruption may occur. Just a fact of life. I totally agree that parents should remove children who are misbehaving, when possible. Remember… hate the parents, not the kids.
I love it when people who don’t have kids tell everyone how they would raise their own. Because when it comes to the moment of actually having to do it, you’ll do what you have to at the time given the circumstances and the child in question, as child A may react very differently than child B to discipline. It’s fine (okay, it’s funny) to predict that you would be the perfect parent who never causes anyone any inconvenience due to your children’s behaviors but it almost never happens that way.
No doubt there are bratty kids and shitty parents. For me they tend to stand out because there are so many other kids who are well-behaved and parents who aren’t afraid to discipline their kids. But that doesn’t mean they are the majority, just more noticeable. And a few minutes of someone else’s kid screaming in the grocery store doesn’t hurt me, doesn’t make me late, and doesn’t ruin my day.
This attitude is not one that is likely, in the long run, to make people want to do things your way. I know it makes me want to borrow a couple colicky babies and follow you around every time you step out your door.
< Bab Streisand >
People, People who hate children
Are the luckiest people in the world
Were children hating other children
And yet letting our grown-up pride
Hide all the hate inside
Acting more like children than children
< Bab Streisand >
You know, I WAS going to search a little, find a few threads to demonstrate the point - but then I just read the rest of the thread and realized I did not have to bother, because posters have saved me the trouble.
I rather strongly suspect that your parenting skills did not appear to bystanders at the time as good as they appear, in hindsight, to you. I could easily be wrong in this, but honestly - people have a natural tendency to remember their success and not their failures.
That’s really the issue here is - no-one (or very few) people think THEY are, were, or are going to be “bad parents”. Everyone has seen examples of “bad parenting” though. That’s part of the human condition - parents aren’t always perfect, some (the truly bad) don’t even try, and things were always ‘better in the good old days when we parents exercised real discipline and kids were respectful of their elders’.
That’s been the rallying cry of the older person since Roman times, if not before. The main cultural diference now, it appears, is that there are lots of people these days who choose to take on this attitude even though they are not themselves old, and critisize parents who are the same age as them (or older), not for failing to match their (non-existent) parenting skills, but for failing to match the parenting skills they IMAGINE they MIGHT have, or half-remember their own parents having.
The thing is, even though you don’t “allow” your children to touch stuff in the store, once they’re able to move about independent of you, they just may test the boundaries and touch stuff. Growing up is a learning process. I think most parents have been surprised by their usually obedient kid going 'round the bend in a public setting. It sucks, and most parents will pull the kid aside, remove them from the store, or at least correct them when it happens. We’ve all seen the inattentive parent of banshees, but most of the time, parents try to do their best. It’s unrealistic to think children should be kept in a box somewhere until they’re fully ready to interact with the adult world and all its complexities.
The unstated assumption many people seem to be operating under is that they themselves were not bothersome to others when they were kids (or that their kids did not bother others), so why should they have to put up with … ?
Now it is possible that everyone taking umbrage at other people’s spoiled little brats were themselves all sweetness and light as kids, or their own children were perfectly disciplined wonders, but permit me to doubt self-reported memory of this.
Walmart? Olive Garden? You can’t seriously believe that you are going to visit these places, or others like them, and not encounter children. Anyplace that carries children’s merchandise or has a children’s menu is going to have children there. They are aiming for the family demographic, as is painfully obvious to even the casual observer. If you were bitching about having your romantic late evening dinner at Club 21 ruined by an unruly toddler, you’d have a valid point.
The fact of the matter is that you shouldn’t go to establishments that are deliberately courting the family segment of the market. Spend a little more and go to places that are trying to attract people like you. Sure they cost more, but one of the things you are paying for is the child-free atmosphere you so highly prize.
