Apart from lowering taxes has Trump/republicans delivered on libertarian ideology?
I don’t think so. It is one of those weird quirks that republicans have everyone believing they are about individual rights and low taxes and lower deficits and fiscally sound policy but have almost never actually delivered on those promises apart from lowering taxes on the very wealthy (which most people do not benefit from).
He sure isn’t campaigning on price controls and Medicare for all
ETA: More things
Trump’s 2-for-1 executive order (reducing regulations) was highly libertarian
Secritary DeVos made significant progress in dismantling the DoE
Trump appointed Supreme Court judges overturned the Chevron doctrine in Loper Bright Enterprises v. Raimondo
Opposed COVID-19 lockdowns earlier (remember that?)
Opposed mandatory vaccination
~Max
Seems that this friend’s leanings are incompatible with being a member of American society.
When talking with my bro & sil - both admitted low information voters- I must admit I come dangerously close to sealioning. Part of me sincerely hopes to get an explanation of their decision making process, because it horrifies and baffles me to know they’re voting for Trump. However, I’d be lying if I denied that I have rebuttals and facts to present when they start spewing ignorant nonsense. Seems more effective to gently influence them to explain and reflect on their choices than to dismiss or mock them. For the record, bro is extremely intelligent and logical in every other way. I can even buy the idea that he’s for Trump strictly for financial reasons. At the same time, I’m not completely convinced that he fully grasps that our state will go to Harris regardless of his vote for Trump. Our mother must be thrashing in her watery grave.
If your friend’s a university professor, he might not remain one much longer if he misgenders any of his students.
Tell him to remember – some day that child will be deciding which nursing home to put him in – the good one or the cheapest one.
As far as the misgendering/deadnaming, I’d go easy on that.
After all, he has been raising this child as one gender/name all the childs’ life, and now suddenly he is supposed to change to a new name & gender? Change decades of habit right now?
When did this child first feel that they were a different gender, and how many years did it take for them to actually transition? Then allow their father to have X% of those years to adjust to this change.
That is a lot of assuming just to make one feel better about the situation.
A citizen has a duty to vote, and to vote his conscience.
~Max
No, he’s not.
Why waste any breath on this person? Hell, why are you even still friends with him?
The more you tolerate people like this, the more you set progress back. When troglodytes like your friend suffer actual consequences, only then they’ll change.
Did you see #7?
~Max
Yes. I disagree with that approach.
I guess it depends on your goals.
You can ostracize that person and never talk to that person again and they will likely not only never change but become more firm in their beliefs.
Or, you can hang in there and subtly try to change their mind.
It reminds me of the black man who got 200 KKK members to leave the KKK. And he did it not by hate or rejecting them but by friendship.
YMMV
If he is actually decent, you only have to point out Trump is not decent.
Show him clips of Trump mocking the disabled reporter, John McCain, “I don’t take responsibility at all, both sides etc.etc.
If he actually decent that will be more than enough.
If losing your friendship doesn’t have an effect on their beliefs, what’s the level of that friendship anyway?
Associating for any length of time with toxic people is bad for your own mental health.
That’s not analogous - that guy is purposefully evangelizing to those KKK people, they aren’t his friends before.
And meanwhile there are lots of anecdotes (including here on the Dope) of people whose friends and family move to be more and more MAGA - despite continued association with them.
I am not sure it matters. The important lesson to getting someone to change their views is almost never confrontation but rather understanding and acceptance and slowly nudging them to a better place.
Just because you associate with someone does not mean you will influence them. Details matter.
I’m not advocating confrontation. I’m advocating disengagement.
You should influence others just by your own behaviour.
He’s a smart man, I’m not going to be manipulating or bamboozling him. Really, I’m looking for arguments why he might be unhappy with a trump presidency. Maybe @Max_S is right, and he wouldn’t be. Or he’d be even more unhappy with a Harris presidency, in which case it’s probably best to not talk politics.
I’m going to defend him a little in the deadnaming thing. His child only recently came out as non-binary, and has been kinda vague about it. It took a while for their friends to catch on. And maybe they’ve been even less direct with the parent they know is uncomfortable with their decision. I know when they got their first tattoo they hid it from their father for months, and finally told their mother and asked their mother to break it to their father, who thinks tattoos are lower-class and forbidden by Jewish law. They’ve since gotten a full sleeve, and Dad seems to have coped with that. I think he’ll come around.
Anyway, i will cheerfully and persistently refer to his child by their current name, and perhaps spend my social capital on that and avoid talking politics.
Fair enough. I’ve no problem with laying out the arguments as you see them. But as Max_S said, Kamala’s proposing price controls on groceries now. It’s not gonna be an easy one.
Are they really price controls? We have not seen details but many states have laws against price gouging. It’s really not a new thing.
TBH…it seems a populist move. When COVID started I saw price gouging all over the place and never once saw a thing done about it (I even reported some examples to my state…nothing happened and it is a liberal state).
I’m not a parent, but I did have a good friend who transitioned. His male name was Peter, and her female name was Cynthia. She preferred Cynthia during and after transitioning, but forgave me if I forgot occasionally and called her Peter. Let’s face it, twelve years of Peter is difficult to change to Cynthia overnight. She understood that, and she and I knew each other well enough that we could just laugh it off, with plenty of “Oops!” from me, of course.
More to the point of the OP, why is it important to convince anybody to vote any way? Maybe I come from a different political tradition, but in Canada, we don’t talk about for whom we’re going to vote, much less trying to persuade anybody to vote in the way that we’d like. That’s their business, not mine.