Thanks for the thread title. I was hankering for some sort of dessert after dinner tonight, and it reminded me that I had some peach fruit-bottom yogurt in the fridge!
A church group I once belonged to had a Seder. The group leader had taken Comparative Religion, and thought it would be a good experience for us to see a different religious tradition and ritual.
I don’t know how accurate our Seder ritual was, compared to an actual Jewish seder, but we made our way through it as best we could. There was a bit of confusion at first, as we tried to determine who the youngest member of the group was, to ask the questions; but we had the bitter herbs, some applesauce, and Kosher wine, and a shank of some kind of meat, along with a few other things.
Like I said, I don’t know how accurate it was, but it was certainly educational. At any rate, it piqued my interest enough that I’d welcome the opportunity to be a guest at an actual Jewish Seder.
In Passover 1991, one month after Desert Storm, the Patriot missile battery that had been deployed to protect Haifa was still there, so my dad, as a leader of the local American community, decided to invite the commander over to our Seder. He was an Army Lieutenant Colonel, I think, Italian Catholic, and a very nice, polite guy. My dad played master of ceremonies, guiding him through it, translating the Hebrew and explaining the goings on. It was a good experience, for him as well I hope.
I never have, and unfortunately may never have the experience. It sounds like it would be an interesting experience.
Growing up in Utah in the 60s and 70s, I never met anyone Jewish until high school. There are very few Jewish people in Japan or Taiwan so I’m not likely to have a chance.
Applesauce?.. Did that applesauce also have chopped nuts in it? Haroset, usually made with chopped apples and nuts (my family’s recipe also includes chopped prunes and wine and spices) is a traditional part of the service. We eat it with matzo and bitter herbs in memory of the hard labor our ancestors performed as slaves in Egypt. (It’s supposed to look like mortar.)
And someone usually waves a shank bone around in memory of the paschal lamb, originally sacrificed to mark the Israelite doors with blood to tell the angel of death not to kill the firstborn in this building. But I’ve never eaten a shank of anything at passover. I do serve an Indian spiced barbequed leg of lamb for the meal. But that’s not traditional. Stewed meat (brisket) is traditional, to remind the participants that we no longer have a Temple in Jerusalem where we can make sacrifices.
I believe the applesauce did have nuts. It definitely was not straight out of the can; we added various things to it. Walnuts, very likely, and some wine, but I cannot remember what else.
And your Indian spiced lamb sounds delicious! I think we had brisket though.
Like I said, it may not have been accurate, but it sure was educational.
That sounds awesome! I only like crispy-ish meringue, and I love whipped cream with lemon pie. That contrast really appeals to me.
I went to a Seder when I was in high school at the house of two kids who were my friends. I remember almost nothing. I remember the food was boring, but I can’t remember what it was – except for the horseradish. I like horseradish.
ETA: My friends were very secular and fairly cynical about the whole process, so that’s probably why it didn’t impress me much. I was picking up what they were laying down.
Yes, it is always the last bit of food eaten.
I recommend The 30 Minute Seder. It contains everything required by Jewish law, but is really short. OTTOMH It lacks the cup of Elijah. All the other stuff is in there. Years ago, I was in Florida for Passover and my sister tried the 30 Minute Seder. One of the guests spoke up afterwards. She said she had been raised Orthodox - and that getting to the actual meal that quickly was wonderful!
My beloved prepared potato kugel and chocolate cake from Mannishewitz kosher for Passover mixes. She also made delicious chicken with rosemary and thyme.
I now have enough Passover food (I probably overbought like every year) to last me til the end of the holiday.
I forgot to find a copy of The Fifth Child. The Seder includes questions asked by four kinds of kids- the wise, wicked, simpe. and the one who does not know how to ask. Eack kind asks a different question and gets an answer according to their question and their nature.
The Fifth Child asks no question because they died in the holocaust. For them we can only remember and be vigilant to prevent it from happening again.
Oh my.
My son is encouraging me to cobble together my own Haggadah. It might not include everything required by the Orthodox. And it would definitely include some stuff that’s been added since. And it would probably expand a little on the actual Exodus story, which is awfully abbreviated in the standard version, considering it’s the point. But it would also run 30-45 minutes.
The too cool cynical part maybe, but Passover is, in my experience, often the secular and even atheist Jew’s major warm connection to cultural tradition. The story is IMHO a, possibly the, central myth to modern Jewish identity and ethos. The celebration is full of family and food, not boring Temple services.
Anyway. I’m a bit surprised that more non-Jews here have experienced Seder as something their church group’s created than ever shared with a Jewish friend or acquaintance. Not what I had expected.
I might guess that it’s because a central event in the Gospels – the Last Supper – was a Passover meal. Additionally, the first Passover, and the exodus of the Israelites from Egypt, is probably one of the best-known Old Testament stories among many Christians.
Christians (and Christian educators, in particular) might hold seders in an effort to help parishioners and students understand the context behind those two stories in the Christian Bible.
When I was a kid, we always went to seders at my orthodox uncle’s who insisted on going through the whole service. Since we didn’t start till sundown, we didn’t eat till about 9:30 (DST) and I felt like I was going to starve. Of course the food, when it came, was good.
This year we went to a friend’s. He became religious fairly late in life and his wife converted. They were spending a sabbatical year in Israel. Rather than get into the whole meat/milk business, they became vegetarian. Ovo-lacto-pisco vegetarian to be exact. A celery stalk replaced the lamb shank. We had vegetarian knaidlich soup and the main course was a side of salmon. There were only four of us and my friend not only conducted the service; he was also the youngest and got to ask the questions. Although we all participated in the answers. He cut it very short and then we ate.
A friend with vegan relatives says they use a beetroot instead of a lamb shank because it “looks bloody”.
My wife is a third-generation atheist, and she’s never missed a Seder in her entire life.
What can I say? It was the sixties. I’m sure that attitude was more an adolescent phase than anything else.
And they certainly weren’t openly disrespectful.
We are kosher-style, mostly, but a little stricter about it at Pesach. Our daughter-in-law, who is not Jewish, is very supportive of our and our son’s desires to honor Judaism, and spent several weeks testing flourless and parve (neither meat nor dairy) recipes. We’re allowing kitniyot (rice and beans, basically) these days, even though we’re Ashkenazi, so she made sweet red bean paste mochi buns. They were delicious.
I also made candied orange peels that we dipped in chocolate and served with the buns.
My mother has a standout recipe for a flourless roulage (eggs, cocoa, chocolate, sugar) that she rolls up with jam or kosher-for-Passover non-dairy whipped cream. I prefer to avoid the advanced food chemistry of the latter, but it works sliced frozen.
We also have a really easy recipe for an almond flour sponge cake that is delicious enough to serve year round. Great for the gluten-free, less so for the nut-allergic, which daughter and daughter-in-law both are, sadly.
Oh, and to the OP, this year we had DILs mother and her husband join us. Her mom had been to one before, but her husband hadn’t. They seemed to enjoy the experience (and the food), but OTOH we didn’t do the post-meal part of the seder–everyone was fading–so they didn’t experience the whole Haggadah of the thing.
Do you have a link? The Fifth Child I found in a search is a novel by Doris Lessing. The synopsis doesn’t mention anything Jewish and the fifth child is very much alive.
No, unfortunately I do not have a link. I don’t think I ever had a paper copy either.
When i was young and in college, I used to be the Shabbat Goy for a couple, who did require me to follow the Noahide laws- which arent that tough. They invited me twice, but I never went- I guess I missed out.
ROUS? (Rodents of Unusual Size).