Pete Townshend v. Ray Davies. Who's the better Songwriter?

Ray, Pete and Mick are up for a reunion. Dave, not so much. :frowning:

Among those hoping for this is Townshend himself. He said as much when he spoke at The Kinks’ induction ceremony to the UK Music Hall of Fame.

I’d be happy to be able to write songs like either of them but will cast my vote on the basis of other writing - Davies published his ‘unauthorized autobiography’, X-Ray, which makes interesting reading. Pete’s is still a work in progress.

Mind you Pete has also written plenty of other stuff just nothing as catchy as X-Ray.

We have a large repository of Pete’s diary posts (including snippets from his autobiography) over on our Who-geek forum. I can’t say if it’s worth your while to register, but here’s a link…

Pete’s postings archive on TheShout.net

Isn’t it “cherry cola”?

It’s Coca Cola on the LP; cherry cola on the single. Ray had to re-record the line for the single because the plug for Coke ran afoul of BBC advertising regulations. (Same reason “Marks and Sparks” was changed to “unmarked cars” in “All the Young Dudes.”)

I’m not a Kinks connaiseur by any means, but in addition to Waterloo Sunset (which I heartily second as one of their stand-outs), I really like This Time Tomorrow.

School Boys in Disgrace is a pretty good rock opera. although I’d have to rate Quadraphrenia higher. But it’s a big of apples and oranges.

I like and agree with much of the commentary here - not much to add to what blondebear and **Biffy **had to say.

One thing I have not seen commented on is the simple fact that The Who were far bigger than the Kinks by pretty much any measure - sales, charting, concert draw, etc. Yes, I know that the Kinks were banned from the U.S. for a bit and that must’ve had an impact, but I also think there is more. I think The Who really swung for the fences with far more ambition - succeeded with Tommy and failed beyond successfully with Who’s Next (originally intended to be the failed “lifehouse Project”). The Kinks didn’t seem to aim that high - they focused more on understanding the Big Questions via wry observation; Pete grabbed the Big Questions by both shoulders and gave them a hard shake…

That doesn’t answer the “who’s better?” question, but I think Ray wrote more fascinating short stories and Pete was obessessed with writing the equivalent of the Great Rock Novel…and I think both succeeded.

Ah that makes sense, I thought it was cherry cola on the LP as well but I probably wasn’t listening very closely.

I know very little about the Kinks, but I saw Ray Davies about a year ago, and he told the story of how his brother came up with that sound of the smashing, raw-edged chords, and I thought man, that’s what the Kinks are to me. Ray said that studio execs (or whomever, bigwigs of some nature) hated the sound, found it to be low-class and unrefined, and asked the Kinks to tone it down, but Dave refused. This is by way of wondering how much credit Dave should get for Ray’s writing. If I understand correctly, Ray handled most of the lyrics and Ray and Dave did the music? Did Townshend get much help from the other members of the group?

Again, I know little about either band – I’m just raising the question, not voting.

95% of Who songs began life as Townshend demos. (check out the* Scoop* series)

According to this old article Dave only wrote 14 songs on the 25 to-date Kinks albums.

I also should have been clearer in my OP. I should have said “lyricist” instead of “songwriter.” I was really speaking to the words, not the music so much.

Ray tells that story on his Storyteller disc.

The vast majority of Kinks songs are credited to Ray alone. There’s probably some kontroversy over how much (if any) Dave contributed to those songs: I think Dave and Ray would give you different answers, with Dave claiming that he doesn’t get enough credit.

Although, that article is from 1980, and Dave upped the count a bit since then. But that’s talking about songs credited to Dave as songwriter. What’s up for debate is how much, if anything, Dave contributed to Ray’s songs, but I do think the claimed contributions were all musical rather than lyrical.

The Kinks being one of my all-time favorite bands behind the Beatles, I’d go with Ray Davies, without a second thought.

As for Kinks suggestions, if I had to pick one, it’d probable be Village Green Preservation Society. But if you have time for three, I’d add Something Else by the Kinks, and Arthur. Then maybe The Kink Controversy or Lola…, depending on whether you feel like delving earlier or later in their catalog. The Kinks albums get really patchy in quality after Lola (well, you do have Muswell Hillbillies in there, actually).

The Kink Controversy is really where I start to see the Kinks and Ray Davies begin to mature songwriting-wise. The two albums before it are raw, bluesy, hard rocking works, with a very aggressive sound for the time period, but the songs are kinda hit and miss, and, well, frankly a lot sound very similar to me. There’s some good pop tunes in there, but it’s not until The Kink Controversy that you start seeing their musical vocabulary expand and can begin to appreciate the wide range of their work.

Book recommendation for Kinks Kompletists/Kultists: [The Kinks: All Day and All of the Night: Day by Day Concerts, Recordings, and Broadcasts, 1964 – 1997](The Kinks: All Day and All of the Night: Day by Day Concerts, Recordings, and Broadcasts, 1964 – 1997)

In my misspent youth, I was a DJ at a college radio station. Late at night, rooting about the record library, I came across “A Soap Opera.”

On the back was the track listing, and someone had written next to one of the songs “This is the funniest dam song I ever heard.”

How could I resist? Cued it up on the turntable, dropped the needle, and heard, for the first time, “Ducks on the Wall”

My baby’s got the most deplorable taste,
But her biggest mistake
Is hanging over the fireplace.
She’s got ducks, ducks on the wall,
Ducks, ducks hanging on the wall.

That mad song broke me up and laid me out on the floor, and when they introduced duck quacks, I bout passed out cause I couldn’t catch my breath.

I love them Kinks :smiley:

PS: Years later, reading a book about the British design group Hipgnosis (think Pink Floyd covers, they did 'em), they did their take on “Ducks on the Wall”

Victoria
Victoria
Victoria
Victoria

I remember reading an interview with Pete long ago referring to “Substitute,” which he admitted was a Kinks pastiche, wherein he went on to claim that, if he had to rate himself as a songwriter against Davies, he’d give the edge to Davies.