On the other hand, if the “Evil Blackness” marks it Evil Pawns by turning their skin dark and making their hair into tight curls, and the Evil Blackness’s army survives on a diet of fried poultry and sweet melons, shouting “It’s a fantasy! Those aren’t real people!” isn’t really a great defense against charges of racism.
Most people who study film and animation, for a start. It’s one of the major landmarks of American cinema, and a foundational part of the new medium of animation.
There are no people with a disability in that film. And if you have not seen the film how do you know how they are portrayed? And, just to make it clear yet again- the dwarves are the Heroes in that film. Not the Prince. They are shown as fun loving, hard working, brave and caring. They have silly nicknames is all.
On what he has seen yes. Not what everyone in the world does. He is a expert on his own experiences. Not other people experiences and thoughts.
And why did those interviewers even bring up the film in the first place, if not to get a rise out of Dinklage? He should have told them to fuck off. "Why the fuck are you bringing up that film to me? Do you think I am a fantasy creature? "
Interviewer, singular. Marc Maron is his name.
I take it you haven’t listened to the podcast? Might want to do that, before you spend any more time complaining about Peter Dinklage offering his opinion on something he hasn’t seen yet.
There are no Thai people in Lady and the Tramp.
And that’s why the movie is harmful. Because it tempts ordinary decent people to say stuff like that. I feel this anecdote proves Dinklage’s point.
I’m starting to wonder if you understand that it is fictional, and animated. There are no people in that film, just drawings and cartoons. It is what those moving pictures on the screen are portraying that is the subject of this discussion.
Why do you claim that I haven’t seen it? You still haven’t given a good reason to back your claim that Dinklage hasn’t seen it, now you are branching out?
I take it that you haven’t actually watched or read Dinklage’s rant, since you got a quote wrong? By your logic, getting anything at all wrong about the subject that you are criticizing means that you don’t know anything at all about it, and are not qualified to opine.
Doesn’t matter that they are the heros. The crows in Dumbo were helpful to the protagonist, that doesn’t make their portrayal any less problematic.
If you really think that “is all” then you haven’t been paying any attention to anything that anyone has said, here or elsewhere. I don’t know that there is any benefit in repeating it, as you have shown that you simply will ignore anything that doesn’t fit your narrative.
So, are you saying that you haven’t actually listened to the podcast? As someone recently said, “if you have not seen the film how do you know how they are portrayed?” If you haven’t heard the podcast, how can you possibly have a relevant opinion on it?
I’m a regular listener to WTF but haven’t listened to this episode. Did Marc actually pass up the chance to suggest Peter was auditioning for the part of Grumpy?
I listened to that Snow white clip, not the whole thing.
Absolutely, and that’s horrible. But is that the fault of the film or the asshole who did that? Randy Newmans song "Short People’ was attacked as being insensitive to short people by people who didn’t know all the lyrics. And of course Dinklage and others had part of the song sung to them. Is that the assholes fault or the fault of Newman and his paean to tolerance?
Many people are cruel or just insensitive. They weren’t made that way by a 1937 comedy/fantasy/musical. Even without Snow White, people would be just as cruel and insensitive.
“You” is a generic “you”, not referring just to the poster called k9bfriender.
People reflect the society they live in. We make society better by excising things that reinforce cruel and insensitive behaviors. As a process it is slow and likely endless, but it is still how we improve things for those who come after us.
Your attitude is much like people who say that littering is okay because no one person can meaningfully contribute to or reduce the total amount of pollution on the planet.
Large problems are solved by degrees. There will always be people who say that no one component of a problem is worth addressing because it’s too small by itself, but there are no magical levers to flip or buttons to press.
That’s a great question, and I think a complicated one.
Was I an asshole if I ever told an Indian friend in High School “Thank you, come again.”? Yeah, probably. Because I didn’t give it a moments thought that it would be offensive and/or annoying. It’s just Apu. Did I mean to be offensive? Of course not. Would I have used a sing-songy fake Indian accent in talking to them if I hadn’t seen Apu on the Simpson’s? Nope, because even the most heavily accented of my friends’ families didn’t sound like that. Does that make my bad behavior the Simspson’s writers’ fault? Not entirely, of course. But maybe a little?
For many people (maybe most) their first exposure to little people is either Munchkins or Snow White or Oompa Loompas or some shit like that instead of an actual human character. And I think that’s what pisses Dinklage off.
DrDeth, I wonder if you’re feeling a little frustrated, and maybe if the way you’re participating in the thread isn’t the best for you. And that’s all I’ll say about that.
I would watch that
Shakespeare’s Shylock, too, and while not explicitly named as Jewish the Child Catcher from the film version of Chitty-Chitty Bang-Bang captures enough stereotypes that he’s also often held up as an example.
There are some versions of Shylock and Fagin that moderate the portrayal, but they remain problematic characters.
Back to little people: I saw a brief interview with comedian Brad Williams, another entertainer of extremely short stature. He agrees more or less with Dinklage, although Williams suggested some fixes and also said:
He’s right, but at the same time, I’m torn, because it’s like, yes, it’s mildly offensive, but at the same time, I kind of need the work
Which gets back to limited opportunities for disabled actors in general, and type-casting that can resemble a straight jacket.
Here’s a link:
How many people even remember the movie now? I am sure I’ve watched it but not for 40 years. Most kids today haven’t seen it. It’s an OLD movie, and not one that gets played on TV a lot.
I think Disney puts it “in the vault” most of the time.
I think this is the main point. This says what several other people have said (in this thread and probably elsewhere), but it says it very well.
Arguably, the film itself does nothing “wrong,” but it makes it easier for others to do wrong. It may not be the film’s fault, but the film is problematic because it gets in people’s consciousness and inspires them to (whether out of malice or out of thoughtlessness) say or do things that are genuinely hurtful or offensive.
I actually saw it in the theater in 2018 or 2019. Cinemark was playing Disney movie matinees in the summer so my mom and I took my nieces to see it.
My older niece was a fan of the movie when she was tiny. For her 3rd birthday (2012) her grandma made her a Snow White costume.
Snow White is part of the whole Disney (Cartoon) Princesses thing. So she, and her movie, are still marketed to kids.
And Disney+ is huge, especially in households with kids. If parents have a fond memory of it (from when it was released on Disney Video in the 90s) then they’ll be sitting their kids down to watch it.
So yeah, the movie still is a big thing. It’s no Frozen but it’s not all-but-forgotten.
I’ve been reading this thread since the beginning but haven’t felt the need to comment until now. I say the following seriously- We’ve just seen somebody take in new information consider it and then realize and admit that they were wrong. This is laudable and several posters in this thread should do the same.
You realize this whole thing started because there’s a remake in the works, right?
It’s easily available on Disney+
Yes. But we don’t know what the movie will do with this.
Disney is going to remake EVERYTHING except Song of the South. This shit works. It doesn’t really matter if the characters are a bit passe.
I mean, “Cinderella” is a bit passe, but they remade that too, and despite the fact the movie was, well… it was okay, it made over half a billion dollars.