Right.
Or people with autism, autistics? Etc. Someone looks act/ different/ disabled? Just label them a slang term that categorizes them as a human subset, but for whose convenience.
That said, the stereotypes tying mythological dwarves to real-world little people isn’t that they’re copper miners, ferchrissakes. WTF? The stereotypes, as folks have repeatedly said in this thread, are real.
Here’s an interesting essay about the history of little people, especially in entertainment. It’s definitely worth reading–especially for anyone who questions why Dinklage is suspicious of how little people will be portrayed, stereotyped, or used in this production.
If cursing is the only criteria to be considered Howard Stern someone owes me several hundreds of millions of dollars.
WTF is one of the first big podcasts and still has a massive audience. Marc Maron is a comic but he is also a good interviewer after years and 1300 episodes of practice. I guess its not too far from what Stern is now since he has morphed into mostly an interview show but not close to what people think of when they think of Stern. WTF is partly personal reflections by Maron but mostly an interview show. It has never been a shock jock show. If it was I doubt Obama would have visited Maron’s garage to do a podcast while president.
I guess if you quote me out of context, I am guilty. However, it wasn’t just where they lived, it was the fact he was conflating humans of short height with mythological creatures. The “Dwarfs” in Snow White are mythological creatures, like brownies, centaurs, gnomes. It is a fantasy world, where magic works. They are not humans. The name is similar, that is all.
So exactly what IS the “key point” I misunderstand? Spell it out in a reply, not just “see his remarks” etc.
I still maintain he has not actually seen the 1937 film. I am happy to be corrected.
(To be honest, imho his point was that if you attack Disney with a profanity laden tirade, you will get lots of media attention, and it worked! Even Disney put out a press release)
I don’t know about in 1937, but in 1967 “dwarf” was used to describe people like Dinklage, who are very short but have ordinary width, and “midget” was used to describe people who were small in every dimension, like the people who played the munchkins in the Wizard of Oz. And I knew that “midget” is now derogatory and replaced in polite conversation with “little people”, but I only just learned today that “dwarf”, as applied to actual human beings, is also objectionable.
I had never heard of this; thanks for sharing. I Googled “Snow White pantomime UK” to learn more about it, and one of the first results was this Daily Mail article about dwarf actors who are cast in these annual roles clapping back at Dinklage over his comments. Interestingly, there were other references to the dwarves in Snow White living in a cave, which made me wonder if that’s how it’s portrayed in the pantomime. Do you (or anyone else) happen to know?
I was curious about the cave thing, as I’d recently read the Snowdrop fairy tale, from which Snow White is adapted (and certainly from earlier versions, etc.). In Snowdrop the miners are referred to as “seven Dwarfs”, and they live in a small house in the woods. “Dwarfs” is always capitalized, as if the author is referring to “six Germans” or similar.
It also reminded me the fate of the evil queen:
But iron slippers were heated over the fire, and were soon brought in with tongs and put before her. And she had to step into the red-hot shoes and dance till she fell down dead.
But it sounds like the living in the mine is something he thinks is objectionable. Maybe not. His criticisms really aren’t clear. And since the movie hasn’t even began production, how can we (and he) know how they are being portrayed. Does he object to all portrayals of mythical dwarfs?
In AVENGERS: INFINITY WAR, say?
This actually brings to mind something I have question about. Does the depiction of the dwarves in Snow White lead to little people being mocked in real life?
because one of the objections to the character of Apu in the Simpsons was that Indian Americans were often harassed by others by using Apu’s catchphrase “Thank You. Come Again.” and other aspects of Apu’s portrayal,
Frankly without actual dwarfs/little people here to discuss their opinions on this matter it almost impossible for me to come to any conclusion on this matter
So …
In the classic cartoon Disney movie there were some creatures based on the mythological characters of dwarfs. As those mythological characters traditionally do, they worked in mines. VERY clearly in this cartoon they did not live in the mines, they, hi ho hi hent off to work they went. It was a very key plot point that they lived in a small house in the woods, and problematic as it might be by today’s standards, a big part of the plot that those of the seven (who each had very distinct personalities, at least one a bit misogynistic) hesitant to help her were swayed by her willingness to do the householdy things for them, the cooking and cleaning while they went to work in mines.
Yeah, Mr. Dinklage does not seem like he has any actual familiarity with that classic cartoon movie.
And of course he has no idea how the adaptation will handle the dwarf characters. Or the rest of what is seriously problematic of that story by today’s standards. (Making Snow a Latina aint enough, could be tone deaf in its own way …)
To me the only question is whether or not this is just recreational outrage on his part, a convenient rant to have for the purposes of being entertaining on the podcast, or a play for more broad media attention.
As to the aside about people with achondroplasia being called the same as the mythologic creatures? My understanding was always that people with the condition came first to ancient peoples and were othered using them as an inspiration for creating a myth. In Egypt the dwarf gods were worshipped as universe creators and associated “with love, sexuality, and childbirth” … but clearly the people with the condition came first there too.
We agree!
(Joke, meta joke, forgive me).
The thing is, if you’re gonna get all sneery about someone getting a detail wrong, you really really oughtta get the detail right about what they got wrong.
The point you misunderstand is that you don’t know the history of cultural representations of dwarfs better than the pre-eminent dwarf actor of modern and perhaps all time. It is absurd to think that Dinklage–who’s grown up and made his professional career out of acting in movies, including Disney movies, as a small person–is actually unfamiliar with Snow White. I mean, seriously, dude. Which is likelier–that he made a minor verbal gaffe as part of a snarky comment during a freewheeling interview, or that he genuinely doesn’t know about the Seven Dwarfs?
The point you misunderstand is that Dinklage knows that they’re mythological creatures, AND he knows that historically there’s been a shit-ton of conflation between small mythological humanoid creatures and real-life small humans. Being like, “GOTCHA THEY’RE NOT HUMANS” is completely absurd, because he knows that and everyone knows that.
It’s possible he never saw the 1937 animated Snow White movie. His parents would have had to get the VHS tape when he was a kid, and I can imagine that once he was conscious enough to make his own decisions, might have deliberately avoided it.
Throughout the show, the Roloffs (the family on the show) referred to themselves as “dwarfs” as well as “little people”. “Little People, Big World” just happened to be the catchier title. In fact, Matt Roloff co-founded and serves as President of Coalition for Dwarf Advocacy. It’s possible that “little people” has an edge in preferences, but not necessarily.
FTR, Peter Dinklage is set to star, according to IMDB, in a movie called The Dwarf.
Nitpick: Snow White actually had a number of theatrical re-releases.
OK, but still they’d have to seek it out. I just find it feasible that he might have avoided the film.
I think it’s within the realm of possibility that he’s avoided it. But even if he has, so what? The dwarf characters in the movie are degendered manchildren there for comic relief, in much the same way that little people have been used in entertainment for centuries. It’s a fair criticism of the movies, and whether it’s a fair criticism doesn’t depend on how much of the movie Dinklage has sat through.
If it did, we wouldn’t even be able to discuss the criticism until we got confirmation from Dinklage on the matter, which is stark raving nuts.
The point is, and this may be getting ridiculous, is that might explain why he’s unfamiliar with the plot element of the dwarfs living in a cottage and not a cave. Someone upthread seemed to think it was a problem that he said they lived in a cave.
It’s totally ridiculous to care about that. Like I said, it’s likely a verbal gaffe, but in regards to the criticism it doesn’t matter. Turning the discussion from “does remaking Snow White do a disservice to little people” to “Did Peter Dinklage see Snow White?” is a textbook ad hominem, ignoring the criticism in favor of attacking the critic.