Yep, this is a perrenial debate in freshman journalism classes all over America. On the other hand, I think most reasonable people would agree that certain societal functions should be off-limits to the exercise of protest rights. Unfortunately, it’s a matter of giving law enforcement and the judiciary some discretion, and also unfortunately, the American public isn’t in a mood to do that now. But I believe, and I think a case could be successfully made, that someone saying the killing of a 7-year-old girl is righteous, and saying so within hearing of the girl’s mourning family and friends, is, by any community standard, obscene (it doesn’t always have to apply to sex or violence) and should be legally actionable. That’s just a theory, of course, but one I’d like to see advanced.
Again, this is a judgement call we have to make all the time. I, too, believe that sunshine kills the mildew. But sometimes publicity isn’t sunshine, it’s fuel that feeds the fire, and we have to take that into consideration, too. Ultimately, our decision wasn’t even that academic – we just decided that, as a morning radio show, we just didn’t want to upset the listeners as they got ready for work.
I apologize for the multi-post – I wasn’t thinking far enough ahead (if a mod is so inclined, this post can be incorporated into my previous.)
It was exactly that kind of legislation Phelps’ brood was planning to protest at the Amish funerals. Pennsylvania either has a law or has proposed a law making a Phelps-style protest illegal. I think it’s interesting that, rather than challenge the constitutionality of the law, the group has just decided to protest some more. Maybe they’re hoping to be arrested so they have a basis for a challenge; but if so, why would they pass up the chance by going on the radio (wider audience for their ignorance?)
My brother’s theory is that the group is too broke to attract the right kind of legal talent to challenge the law, so they’re deliberately provoking the public, hoping to be physically attacked so they can sue, collect damages and thus fund a legal fight. But, then, he thinks the Elks are hiding Elvis …
It’s hard to read about a man who connects the deaths of soldiers, gay men and young Amish girls and feels they are justified because God hates fags and not want to see him get a little divine retribution in the messiest way possible.
I really think Phelps is really just insanely horny for publicity. He’s like a walking exemplar for the phrase, “there’s no such thing as bad publicity.” He’ll do anything to get it and he doesn’t care if just about all of it is bad, because he can get further publicity by making spectacles of tragedies he can claim are God’s retaliation for all the bad publicity he’s getting. I’m almost convinced that in his secret blackened heart he would gladly hug a chair back while a sinful Godless homosexual jammed his exhaust just so he could turn around and cry rape for the cause.
Plus, I almost have to believe that even he expects any attack made on his person to be fatal.
Yes, but most of that video is of feet. It’s hard to see if anyone was assaulted.
The Phelps website claims “America bombed WBC…” Shouldn’t that read “GOD bombed WBC…” If Phelps is right :rolleyes: how could God let the family be attacked?
I have a feeling Phred realized that if he picketed the funerals he and his spawn could quite legally be evicted, and so decided to find a way to make it look like he magnanimously decided not to picket. From http://edition.cnn.com/2006/US/10/05/amish.shooting/index.html with my own emphasis added:
If, as I understand it, they have their own colony I suspect not even your First Amendment will be enough for Phred to be able to interfere.
Given the Amish viwe that the girls are in a better place than we, I would say that God is rewarding PA form the Amish perspective. Glad Freddy-boy decided to remind us of that.
I think the only time Phelps ever feels anything like joy or happiness is when he’s causing someone else to suffer. I very much doubt he feels any kind of self-loathing at all. I think he’s so pathologically certain of his own rightness and morality that, in his head, it excuses absolutely any action. His ethical system is entirely self-centered: anything that he does is the correct and proper action because he’s the one doing it. He’s a sociopath, and wholly lacking in any sort of humanity, let alone guilt or self-consciousness.
His arugment usually goes along the lines of, “America does not execute homosexuals, therefore America has earned the scorn of God. Anything bad that happens to anyone in America is therefore deserved punishment from God because the nation implicitly condones homosexuality, regardless of the beliefs or actions of the individual being condemned.”
However, I don’t think that Phelps actually believes this. It’s just his excuse to cause emotional distress to as many people as possible. Hurting other people has always been Phelps’ sole motivation in life, and his “homophobia” is merely an extension of that.
And it’s not like it really matters, but this time, he’s actually going a more selfish route by saying that the shootings are retribution on Ed Rendell for personally persecuting Phelps/the WBC. To me, that seems a tiny bit more ludicrous than his usual blather.
I don’t know their exact financial status, but they aren’t broke. And since 90% of the adults are lawyers, legal “talent” isn’t the problem, they can handle that in-house.
They maintain a compound of houses on one block here in Topeka. I think all but one of the houses belong to them. It’s kind of wierd to see the big privacy fence that links their houses make a big jog to go around the one property that is not theirs. And just last year several of the houses we remodeled and enlarged.
Fred’s own home, the original building, is the one that houses the WBC’s sanctuary. I imagine they use creative tax dodging, as much of the property is supposed to be church related. Like the swimming pool, that’s their “baptismal pool” believe it or not. Several years ago they tried to get a truck taken off the tax rolls as a church related vehicle, because, amongst other things, they use it to transport their signs for the picketing.
So assuming they pool some income from their family law firm(Phelps Chartered, it’s in the Topeka phone book) they manage well enough. They used to get a little income from having Fred’s sermons on tape, and marketing them through some fringe websites and hate outlets. And I wouldn’t be surprised if folks who are to cowardly to show their own hate quietly donate money off the record. The WBC does travel quite a bit, the money has to come from somewhere. If they go somewhere to picket, the travel expenses may be written off as church related, since they say they are “preaching the Gospel”.
If the WBC shows up at my church again this Sunday I’ll check to see if there are any Amish related signs.
James Earl Jones appeared in Topeka recently, a program “Shakespeare in the Minority Key.” The cafe I work for catered the aftershow buffet, and one of my co-workers got to meet JEJ, shake his hand, and get an autograph. The WBC showed up outside the Topeka Performing Arts Center, and Jones saw the signs. His driver told my co-worker that JEJ asked if they were trying to say he himself was gay. When told by Topekans “NO! It’s nothing personal, they hate everyone equally” Jones was quoted as saying “Oh. So they’re just assholes!”
Think of that being said in that wonderfully deep and rich voice Jones has!
I’d say most of it is bandwagon-jumping, but there is something about this guy that makes you wonder if the world wouldn’t be better without him in it.
Baker, that sums it up beautifully. They’re just assholes making noise, and all the attention we’re giving them is much more than they deserve.
I listened to excerpts of it on the radio this morning. Hannity asked her how she could possibly think that little kids, who were obviously innocent, deserved to die. Her response: “If you believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, as we do, you know that Adam’s sin is everyone’s sin. There are no innocents.”
Fuck you with three feet of rusty rebar, you hate-spewing psychopath. :mad:
:mad: And if she RTB:IF , she would know that the consequences for Original Sin are the exclusive province of that deity and not up to any human agent to enforce. H & C were too damn polite, they should have ripped off her mic and said “get off my set, you sick psycho”.
I’d set it as my morning alarm tone on my PDA. That would get me up with a smile first thing.
It is a hallmark of sociopaths when claiming religious influence for their misdeeds that they take only that which speaks for their rationale, even though it loses its intended meaning when taken out of context or wasn’t intended to be taken literally in the first place. (Being a biblical literalist though the latter point is moot when it comes to the Phelpses) Inconvenient truths are easy to sidestep when the only people their hateful messages would actually reach have the IQ of butternut squash.
