Philly Sport's Columnist Tells Disabled Sports Fans: stay home!

The BBQ Pit
1

Paper: Philadelphia Daily News
Author: Bill Conlin (appears on ESPN from time to time)
whole article:
http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/sports/columnists/bill_conlin/6537631.htm

background info: The Linc is short for the Eagles’ new home, Lincoln Financial Field. Many have praised the place, with some complaints about no water fountains, increased prices and an attempt to ban hoagies (in a city of people that prides themselves on cheesesteaks, hoagies and soft pretzels…kind of like banning cheeseheads in GreenBay) The Daily News ran a few ‘bitch’ articles themselves.

In any event, this below is never warranted…

CLIPPING:

“…Even if the Linc isn’t going to be all that handicapped-friendly this season, it’s a given that once the Vet is nuked next winter, the whole parking situation will change for the better. Four words for fans with disabilities who might have difficulty accessing the Linc in its start-up year: HDTV…”

I leave it to you SDMBers.

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Not ever having seen this guys writing before, I could be misreading this.

It looks to me like he is having himself a bitch session. Saying that the parking sucks this year, the handicap accesability sucks and since that won’t be fixed untill next year it looks like those who are in wheelchairs (I assume this is what he’s referring to) will have to stay home and watch on TV, not that he doesn’t want them there.
In other words, I believe he is saying it’s bullshit that there is not better accessbility for handicapped folks.

3

Having to look like Bill Conlin looks is Pitting enough, imho.

4

No no no…he is mocking anyone with complaints! He is flat out mocking Philly sports fans, calling them whiners and bitchers!

He then includes disabled Philly sports fans who are pissed that the Eagels cut the number of disabled accessible spots in half this year!

My point (and my brehtren from Philly) feel that it’s one thing to tell someone to ‘can it’ over too few drinking fountains, BUT you can’t call people bitchers and moaners because they want a decent amount of disabled accessible parking!!!

You can’t say, 'Ah shut up and watch it on TV…Check back next year maybe they’ll add some handicapped parking!"…so to speak!

5

Okay, like I said - I’d never read the guy so of course don’t really know his tone or anything.

So I guess with that said - This guy is a fucking jackass…

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Looks innocent enough to me. I’m sure this is going to get me in hot water, but everywhere I go there seems to be twice as many disabled spots as are needed. At least the guy is suggesting a good TV!

A Gay Bishop? Can’t beat that!

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Much as I’d like to rip Conlin for something more specific than being a fat load of crap who redefines the phrase “pompous blowhard” … I don’t see him saying anything close to what you say he’s saying.

8

Seems like if one of us said, “Well, looks like the Reader still can’t spare any cash for a new server, so you folks with dialup, you might want to get your SDMB fix at work.”

He was just commenting on the hopelessness of the situation, he doesn’t want disabled fans to stay away, rather he’s frustrated that they can’t get to the games.

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http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/news/081303_nw_lincparking.html

More info on the parking scandal.

Here’s the rub: The Linc satisfies the ADA requirements for handicapped spaces according to the number of spaces in its own private lot. But the Philadelphia sports complex is surrounded by tons of private lots as well, that the Eagles do not own or control. People are complaining that the spaces in those lots should have counted towards the total number of spaces and thus affected the ratio for handicapped spots.

But the bottom line of the article is this: quit biatching about hoagies or water fountains or parking spaces. The Eagles have a stadium that is infinitely better than the Vet, and they even have a good team to play in it.

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That’s stupid. That’s like saying that if I own a restaurant that’s surrounded by other buildings, I have to include the entrances and restrooms of the other (privately owned by someone other than myself) buildings in figuring out how many handicapped accessible ramps and bathroom stalls I have to put into my restaurant.

And can I just mention how much I loathe this recent trend toward naming every sports event or venue after a corporation? Bleah. Veteran’s Stadium stood for the men who served in our armed forces. Lincoln Financial Field stands for what? A bank? A stockbroker? Who are Lincoln Financial? Bleah.

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My front yard with some bleachers would be a better stadium than the Vet.

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Does something prevent handicapped people from parking in spaces that aren’t designated handicapped?

As in, if someone in a wheel chair really wants to go to the game and is willing and able to park in a non-handicapped space, there’s nothing stopping them, right?

Not that I disagree with there being handicapped spaces, cause I don’t. I do think it’s stupid to count property that does not belong to the stadium into its parking space designations.

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Enough room between their cars and the ones they parked next to so that they can get wheelchairs or other equipment out, if that’s their particular handicap. I know that side-opening vans with a lift would probably be SOL (even if you parked next to an empty spot, you can’t guarantee it’ll be empty when you get back).

It does seem kind of strange to have to count private parking lots, though.

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Depends on the handicap. If you need to be transported in a van with a wheelchair lift, you need space next to the van to roll off the lift. With many normal parkings spots (especially if your neighbor has parked like a moron), you might only have a foot or so between your car and the next one, which isn’t enough space for a wheelchair.

Also, keep in mind that part of the issue with handicapped spaces is that they are the ones closest to the entrance, and so part of the issue is whether the person is able to make it from his/her vehicle to the entrance. Many handicapped people can get into a wheelchair without needing a specially equipped vehicle or lift, or may need an assistive device such as a walker or cane, so they don’t have special space requirements, but they can’t walk for long distances, either. I spent a year without the use of one leg, and I could fit into a normal car, but I wasn’t able to walk more than a hundred yards or so on crutches without facing large difficulties and much residual soreness. And I was otherwise young and healthy, except for the leg.

Plus, what if all the regular parking spots are already taken? Happens all the time. Able-bodied people in big cities usually have other options besides driving, so what’s the big deal about saving a few extra spots for those who don’t have any other realistic options?

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Well, there’s a bit of difference between having to count the private parking lots and taking the number of spaces at the private lots into consideration when it’s clear (by the number of stadium-owned spaces) that the majority of attendees will be parking elsewhere, in locations which are, by definition, further away from the stadium than the lots that are owned by the stadium itself. There’s also the sticky matter of parking permits/leases that go along with the luxury boxes and special season ticket packages – the majority of the stadium-owned spaces will be filled by people who aren’t “general public.”

If the stadium parking has a 5,000 car capacity but the sum total of stadium area parking is 25,000 spaces, John Q. Public is going to end up in satellite parking almost exclusively, and in lots that are progressively further and further away from the stadium itself. Additionally, it’s been my experience that on game days, as a means of traffic control, the police begin shunting people to satellite parking fairly quickly and will force people to head to increasingly remote lots even when the lots closer in aren’t quite at capacity. It’s just the easiest way to manage the traffic. Because of tailgating and pre-game festivities, this process starts quite a few hours before the actual kickoff.

So let’s say (and again, this is a “for instance” not an actual number) that under the law, the stadium is only obligated to provide 50 handicapped spaces because they only have 5,000 spaces total. That’s great, if you’re able to be lucky enough to be 50 out of 25,000. If not, hearing that the stadium people did the bare minimum they were required to do under law and that the situation will be better next season is cold comfort.

If there was a way for the stadium to make the situation better for those who don’t have options (i.e. can’t park in a regular space because then they can’t get in/out of the vehicle, can’t walk a long distance, can’t arrive five hours before kickoff to ensure the availability of a parking space because they can’t sit out in the cold that long) due to their disability, decency rather behooves them to have done so. Clearly it’s a known problem, and the response seems to indicate that the stadium is hiding behind the “we followed the law” excuse for not really giving a damn.

For this “writer” to compound the situation by throwing out glib (and utterly stupid, as HDTV may be four letters but cannot be, in any way, four words) suggestions for options which do not address the concerns of the handicapped in any meaningful way, while suggesting that the very real problem of needed accessibility isn’t nearly as important as NFL business as usual is just insulting, demeaning and foul.

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First of all, according to the artcle, it seems the parking lots are not private lots that just happen to be near the field, but are the parking lots near other venues in the same complex. I was really wondering how that would work in a place like Shea Stadium, where there is more parking available on the street than in parking lots.

I can understand that if the complex has 22,000 parking spaces they need to have 230 handicapped spaces. I can even understand the position that since all 22,000 spaces are available to those attending a game at the Lincoln Financial Field, there should be more than 33 handicapped spaces near the LInc. This is where I run into problems-

Maybe, but then 230 spaces would also be required near Wachovia Center and and another 230 near Wachovia Spectrum.(which apparently have larger parking lots) Because if the Linc’s handicapped parking need is determined by the total spaces then those arenas’ handicapped parking must also be determined by the total number of spaces. Now you have given the entire complex with 22,000 spaces three times as many handicapped parking spaces as are necessary under the ADA. Most of those spaces will be unused- I’ve never seen all of the handicapped spaces full in a stadium and as far as I know, you can’t simply convert handicapped spaces to regular spaces, so if the only event going on is at the Linc, the 460 spaces at the two arenas (plus some of the 230 at the Linc) will be empty.

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First of all, according to the artcle, it seems the parking lots are not private lots that just happen to be near the field, but are the parking lots near other venues in the same complex. I was really wondering how that would work in a place like Shea Stadium, where there is more parking available on the street than in parking lots.

I can understand that if the complex has 22,000 parking spaces they need to have 230 handicapped spaces. I can even understand the position that since all 22,000 spaces are available to those attending a game at the Lincoln Financial Field, there should be more than 33 handicapped spaces near the LInc. This is where I run into problems-

Maybe, but then 230 spaces would also be required near Wachovia Center and and another 230 near Wachovia Spectrum.(which apparently have larger parking lots) Because if the Linc’s handicapped parking need is determined by the total spaces then those arenas’ handicapped parking must also be determined by the total number of spaces. Now you have given the entire complex with 22,000 spaces three times as many handicapped parking spaces as are necessary under the ADA. Most of those spaces will be unused- I’ve never seen all of the handicapped spaces full in a stadium and as far as I know, you can’t simply convert handicapped spaces to regular spaces, so if the only event going on is at the Linc, the 460 spaces at the two arenas (plus some of the 230 at the Linc) will be empty.

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There’s no reason why those spaces couldn’t be converted by police or parking officials once it’s close to game time and it seems that the full compendium of handicapped parkers have arrived. You could have handicapped spaces denoted with signs that are lights, and only when they are lit are they reserved, and the head of parking would have the key to the switch.

The fact is that we don’t know that 230 spots at the Linc are sufficient. If that’s fewer spaces than were available at the Vet, then that provides a basis for comparison. Since it seems that is the case and this is something that there have been community complaints about, if the stadium officials want to diffuse the argument it seems that their answer should be “there were X more spaces at the Vet and according to our records and traffic police who worked games there, X% of those spaces were never used, therefore we don’t anticipate that having 230 spaces will be a problem.” They’re not saying that, they’re saying “Wait until next year, after the Vet is demolished and things are done…” which indicates that they’re aware that this is, indeed, going to pose a problem.

As Eva Luna pointed out, the able-bodied have more options than the handicapped. They could carpool, take busses or walk further distances. If the interest was serving the community as a whole then there would be the same number of handicapped spaces available at the Linc this season as were available at the Vet last, and if that means fewer spaces for the able-bodied, so be it. This “we’ve complied to the letter of the law” begrudging attitude makes it clear that the handicapped sports fan in Philadelphia is an afterthought, not a population whose special needs are an important consideration in the planning process.

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Actually, there are reasons. It takes manpower, I don’t know if it’s legal and anyway, how the hell is anyone going to know when all of the people who need handicapped spaces have arrived.What happens when a handicapped person or two arrives late and finds thirty handicapped spaces taken up by cars that aren’t eligible for handicapped parking? I’m not saying there shouldn’t be more handicapped spaces, even if the law doesn’t require it. I’m saying that it’s going overboard to take the position that every parking space in the complex should be counted in determining how many are needed at one (or really each) individual venue.

Wouldn’t have a problem with that either. But according to Philster, the spots have been cut in half from the number that were at the Vet, which means there were about 100 tops at the Vet. Not 230. My only problem is with the position that there should be 230 spaces at the Linc, and that basing the number on the Linc’s parking lot is a “loophole”. It’s not a loophole, and basing the number on the total number of spaces in all the lots in the complex is ridiculous. Imagine a mall with 22,000 parking spaces. The ADA would require the same 230 handicapped spaces - for the entire mall, not outside each entrance. And I don’t think the issue is more parking for the able-bodied at all- the owners of the stadium don’t care who they collect money from.They don’t have an interest in either serving the community as a whole or in serving only the able-bodied. They have an interest in making as much money as possible and therefore collecting as many parking fees as possible. But setting aside 230 spaces at the Linc in addition to the spaces set aside near the other venues means that those spaces can’t be sold if there aren’t that many cars entitled to use handicapped spaces . Unless those spaces aren’t really set aside at all- you could close the areas closest to the entrance and only allow the handicapped into them up to a certain time and then open them up to everyone- but then they wouldn’t be handicapped spots, and most likely wouldn’t satisfy Thomas Earl (quoted in the article). And if the parking lots aren’t filled to near capacity for a game, that’s even less reason to demand about 7 times the number of handicapped spaces the law requires. (The ADA requires 33 spaces at the Linc, although there are 51.Those like Thomas Earl, who believe the calculation should be done based on all the parking spaces in the complex presumably want 230 spaces near the Linc.)

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:rolleyes:

All I’m going to say is it’s amazing how fast those spaces fill up when you’re the one looking for a place to park. The grass is always greener, and all that.

[/hijack]