Pickup Truck Unibody?

Maybe, maybe not. I’m not a design engineer, and so my insight as a manufacturing engineer limits me appreciably. I debated adding notes about the possibilities of building a unibody pickup truck with the same performance as a body on frame, and decided not to. I’ll give it a shot anyway, and start off by saying it’s probably not practical (compromises will have to be made).

Remember that a unibody body structure has serious structure built into it, especially in the underbody and front end (engine box) subsystems. These have to bear the motor and road load, and any additional load (such a trailering), as well as provide a lot of the crash protection. While the upper body plays its part in rollover protection and side impact (of course), the underbody is still responsible for most of the strength.

Modern underbodies are made from sheet metal. There are lots of ways to stiffen sheet metal, but in general they’re all variations of (1) adding another layer of sheetmetal, or (2) creasing the sheetmetal. For example seat belt anchors on a 0.75 mm mild steel floor may be welded to a 1.8 mm high strength steel reinforcement. Or a rail section will have three main creases – creating an open box – that runs along the length of the underbody. Adding the floor closes of the box, but it’s still flexy compared to a chassis frame that’s an actual, closed box. Because the body is part of this underbody, the entire car can twist in multiple axes.

Boxes in particular are how a chassis frame become so rigid and resistant to flex; the rails and cross rails are nearly completely closed box sections, and they’re GMAW welded instead of spot welded. There may still be some flex, but not nearly as much as a sheet metal underbody. And if there is some flex, the body and bed are decoupled from this anyway and so not subject to the flex.

As a result of the strength the chassis frame brings to the car, the bed and cab have a lot less structure. Certainly doors still have boron intrusion beams, and modern a pillars and roof rails are usually boron steel or hydroformed, but the floor is just a floor. Because there’s no underbody structure, the whole closed cab weights a lot, lot less than a unibody car of similar spatial volume.

Finally, can we build a unibody pickup that is as strong as a body on frame? Sure, but this is where we start to compromise. Do we want to allow the cab and bed to flex? Do we limit the maximum service (towing, plowing, bed payload)? Do we want to add weight? Do we want to add 12 hours per vehicle to build a unibody underbody system? Will we lose sales because GM makes fun of the unibody pickup? Really, how much does it cost?

Assuming we want all of the same load performance, the only real way to substitute the chassis frame with a unibody equivalent is to massively, massively overbuild the underbody. Maybe we use (expensive!) hydroformed rails and cross rails. Instead of a perfectly serviceable 0.7mm floor we add strength by using 1.0 mm (weight! cost!). There’s no chassis providing protection, so now we add weight and cost to the engine box area.

I’m sure we could do it if it made economic sense, but to answer that conclusively and address all of the cost questions definitively would take a cross functional team (product, manufacturing, purchasing, marketing) about a year of research, and involve thousands of person hours. In fact, this is pretty much the process that any new vehicle program has to go through before it’s approved by the Board of Directors.

(In the case of my company, we decided to remove the weight by using a lot more aluminium.)

This was more like what you were talking about- they weren’t actual paving stones, but more like some kind of manufactured decorative stepping stones made of the same stuff as pavers; the pallet barely fit between the wheel wells, and the stones were stacked up about 3 feet high above the actual wooden pallet.

There was a LOT more than 500 lbs in the bed, trust me.

Pallets of pavers are generally in the 2k-4K range. A much heaver load than you should be putting in a Ranger(1300 pound Payload).

I’m surprised Home Depot put them on the truck for you. When I was responsible for such things I wrote the policy for my district, lift truck operators were not allowed to use a machine to put more than it’s arbitrary weight rating. 1000pounds in a 1/2 ton 1500 hundred in a 3/4 ton etc. If a customer really wanted to exceed that threshold they were welcome to load it by hand.

Dealt with multiple customers trying to blame Home Depot for damage to their vehicles due to overloading.

Customer 'put this pallet of concrete(4000lbs) in my F150.
HD ‘sorry we can’t do that for you it’s against our policy’
Customer ‘you’re not going to help me’
HD ‘we will not load a pallet into your vehicle that exceeds it’s weight capacity if you’d like we can take the pallet to your truck but it is against policy to overload it.’
Associates could hand load up the the vehicles capacity. After that the customer had to do it themselves.
Customer then left the parking lot and their suspension collapsed(leaf spring mount broke) when they got onto the road. HD sent a truck over to unload the product and the truck was towed away
They then attempted to blame HD. Eventually threatened to sue. They were given our legal departments contact info but to my knowledge never followed through.
At the time curbside delivery for the pallet was 50 bucks. They were even told it was an option(by their own admission, apparently they felt HD should have offered the service for free when it was clear they were going to overload the vehicle)

Reading incident reports about stupid people could have been one of the best parts of the job if not for the other side of it where stupid HD employees actually hurt people.

A uni-body pick up would have to have a long track record before I considered purchasing one. I expect I’m not the only one who shares that opinion. Manufacturers just might be unwilling to be the first to chance lost sales. A game of economic chicken.

Things like frame hooks and mounting points are pretty important to me when I buy pick ups. I need to be able to easily hook chains for various purposes. A uni-body isn’t very accommodating for that.

Thanks for this. A fantastic answer. If I understand you correctly, what you’re basically saying is that the benefit of a unibody is that it does flex, and that you want the opposite for carrying stuff, and that means a separate chassis.

So if you were going to build a unibody load-carrying vehicle it would have to be box-shaped itself, right? Or have all sorts of strengthening beams like you described above?

The benefit of a unibody is that it is much more space efficient. You just can’t pile as much weight on it before it begins to twist the entire car body in odd ways. On a ladder frame, the weight is transmitted to the suspension and the wheels in a much more direct, controlled way. “Flex” isn’t necessarily an issue, since only the frame is flexing and the body is decoupled. The HD versions of Ford and Ram’s trucks (F350, etc) actually have C-channel frames instead of fully boxed frames, like the 1/2 tons do, because allowing a little flex in the frame actually helps carrying capability, at the expense of ride quality and presumably Nordschliefe lap times. GM’s HD trucks use fully boxed frames for reasons unclear to me.

IF I were buying a truck for the kind of demands that you actually need a truck for, yeah, I agree. If something like this or this was my normal day to day or even week to week need, I would not get a unibody truck.

As I posted upthread I do have a unibody Honda Ridgeline. It fills the need for me in that I need a four door vehicle, but also have a need for a very versatile cargo area. Not a week goes by that I’m not getting a “1/2 scoop” of mulch or fill dirt from the local landscape place, or bags of concrete, or building supplies, or car parts/wheels, blah, blah.

The need to haul anything over about 1000 pounds is rare, and I feel perfectly comfortable with up to that weight in the Ridgeline. I’ve also towed 4500 pounds with it, inclusing pulling that sailboat/trailer up the ramp. Ridgeline did this just fine.

If I could have dedicated truck, I’d absolutely go with a body on frame truck, but since for my needs the Ridgeline can straddle the line between “comfortable day to day four door car” and “light duty truck” while just taking one garage space, it’s the right vehicle for me.
The one time I did come really close to overloading it was here. That’s 1500 pounds of retaining wall blocks.

This points to another advantage of the full frame: large parts of the body can get fubared and be fairly easy to replace.
On a standard pickup, if you back it into a pole hard enough to bend the tailgate and crumple the bed floor, (so long as you didn’t bend the chassis) you can just take that bed off and put another on. With a unibody, you’d need to get the bent part straightened, because replacing is not an option.

And about 20 years ago (which is the last time I checked), straightening a unibody was … possible, but ludicrously expensive. I had a 1972 Dodge Dart that got rear-ended and turned into a parallelogram (entire right side pushed slightly forward). and straightening that would have cost orders of magnitude more than the car was worth. I am told that fixing a standard chassis that had been similarly damaged would have been a few hundred or maybe a couple of thousand dollars.

The body shop folks I talked to said that unibodys could be straightened, but unless it was a Ferrari or something it just wasn’t worth it.

They were called “Unibodys”, and the bed and cab are all one stamped piece, but it was bolted down to a pretty normal F-series frame chassis.

I’ve got one sitting in my back yard.

That’s no longer true at all. Modern body shops have frame rigs that can straighten out almost any unibody damage. Cars that look crushed beyond repair are back on the road in fairly short order.

We actually use those same (or similar) machines to perform destructive testing. Modern materials are damned hard to separate once welded!

Still, I’m leery about repairing extensive structural body damage by simply “straightening out” the damaged sheet metal. I’ll admit I’m not formally trained in body dynamics, but the “creases” I mentioned upthread to provide strength also contribute to weakness in a different axis. After a collision, if you pull the sheet metal back into position, it will never have the same strength in the same area again. For example “crumple zones” absorb impact energy by being collapsible. Pulling back a major structural element intuitively seems to me that you’ve not got a new “crumple zone” that requires a lot less force to activate upon subsequent collisions in the same spot, and probably a lot less force to activate if struck from tangent.

Again, that’s my ignorant perception and I’ve never seen FEA analysis or anything. I’m assuming that we have brilliant engineers working in the Customer Service Division, too, that publish what’s an acceptable repair or not!

This is only sort of true for trucks. For body-on-frame cars, the body assembly itself isn’t all that different from unitized construction; apart from the doors, hood, fenders, core support, and trunk lid the body is still all welded together. If you back into something and crunch a quarter panel and the trunk floor, you’re going to be doing a lot of cutting and welding.

Are there any still in current production?

No, but the idea of a body on frame vehicle being easier to repair had been stated more or less as an absolute. Besides, as far as the Panther triplets are concerned, there’s still a ton of them out there.

While surfing for facts I stumbled onto this video of a 2009 Chevy Malibu test crashing into a 1959 Chevy Bel Air.
Not related to the discussion but damned interesting.

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While doing the search I found body on frame cars (in the US) are non-existant (I suppose the last was the Ford Crown Vic), and interestingly body on frame SUVs are declining.

I have a 2004 Ford Explorer which has a frame (and has truck like characteristics for sure) but my new work Explorer is a unibody which drives a lot nicer. Curious to see how it will handle snow.

should put paid to the notion that older cars were “safer,” but it probably won’t. people love to cling to the notion that cars in the '50s-'70s were these huge, safe tanks, but they weren’t. yeah, you could back into another car in a parking lot and straighten your bumper with a pair of Vise Grips, but since they had never heard of crumple zones back then any collision on the road was likely to maim or kill you.

body structure has nothing to do with how well a vehicle handles snow. if you’re worried about winter driving, just get bloody set of winter tires.

Well, most people who don’t know any better will assume that the way modern cars crumple means they’re unsafe. They’re not distinguishing damage to the passenger cabin from damage to the front or wherever, or looking to see if the doors still open rather than whether the hood folded in half.

yeah, modern vehicles are designed to sacrifice themselves in order to protect the occupants.

edit: case in point, just watch this video:

see how those "tanks" buckle. pillars collapse, seats break free, and dashboards go flying around.

On home leave I had a rental Explorer… very nice to drive, and maybe a future consideration when it comes time to replace my (garaged) Expedition. After a mid-trip trip, Avis gave me an Edge the next time around. Although it’s unibody, it felt much, much more truck-like than the Explorer did (Edge was previous model, not current, though).

Sadly, no snow in Michigan in July, so no idea how well either of them would handle it.

I’m probably just deluding myself but I honestly think there’s a market for a small, nimble vehicle with front wheel drive, uni-body construction and maybe a half sized pickup bed. Completely drop all 4WD/sport ute pretenses and concentrate on efficient, light urban hauling. I don’t need or want a full sized bed capable of hauling whole sheets of plywood. If the bed was big enough to fit a washing machine though then I’d buy it. I’ll come back for the dryer.

Probably just dreaming. I live in 'Merica. We want TRUCKS not toys or so they tell me.