Now I want to post one. This is Floyd from 1994 performing Time, which is one of my favorite Floyd songs.
To me, this is the complete package (even without Waters, since Dave sang this song originally anyway): the lighting, the big screen with all the images, the way it sounds…everything. What a great-sounding and looking concert that must have been. They sound incredible.
(how do you post a link with your own words instead of all this Youtube garble, again? I forget.
Type out the text you want and highlight it. Then click the link button (the world, with a chain link next to it) and paste in the URL.
Thanks Marley.
OK. I have now listened to all the suggested tracks, from “Lucifer Sam” (which sounds like a James Bond movie song) to “Apples and Oranges” and everything in between and I have concluded that it is a “you had to be there” type of situation.
The Syd Barret music is so primitive and boppy (aside from “Jugband Blues”, which is indeed a little scary) and not indicative of the direction Pink Floyd headed in after he was cast out of the band.
The production sucks, the songs are really uneven (or silly), and it sounds like some kind of soundtrack for 1966 psychedelia gone horribly wrong.
In short, I think Syd Barrett’s music sucks. I wanted to like it, I really did, but most of it is so nonsensical that I can’t really compare it to later Floyd efforts that (to me) are meaningful and beautifully recorded. The Beatles did far more to further the pop effort than the Floyd ever did.
Pink Floyd was meant to be a cynical, contemplative electronic band with insane visuals and lyrics. Syd would have destroyed them if he’d been allowed to stick around. I still fail to see the “awesome influence” he had with the band, other than to provide Waters with songwriting material about a good friend gone nutso.
The irony for me is the Floyd’s constant railing against materialism while they enjoyed the lives of landed gentry after their success with DSOTM.
YMMV of course.
Yeah, I don’t really like Syd Barrett’s music.
I don’t get the hatred for The Wall, either. It’s beautifully cynical, full of shame, regret…I think it spans the human experience of isolation, paranoia and shame.
It’s a great recording, Roger Water’s dominance leading to the breakup of the band aside.
I’ll never understand people that hate The Wall. Anyone care to explain?
Not me, I love that album.
I think there are plenty of albums that contain the same sweeping portrayals of the human condition. But none that also contain the best musical soloes ever composed by anyone in history. The Wall is among the best pieces of artwork ever created by Humanity.
What hate? I have admittedly only skimmed the thread, but I only saw praise for The Wall here.
As for Barrett’s noninstrumental work, I love Astronomy Domine and Lucifer Sam.
And I can’t help but mention that Interstellar Overdrive really really makes me want to jam!
Interstellar Overdrive is a great track as is Astronomy Domine. If Syd is on Ummagumma I like that album, so I guess I can understand the love of Syd. That album is just very playfully weird.
I think it’s an hour and a half of whinging about things that had happened 30 years before. I wanted to yell, “That was in 1949! Get over it, Roger!”
Dark Side is insipid. Meddle is a far, FAR better album.
I think it’s amazing the different opinions on this matter. I couldn’t disagree more, as I don’t find an adult man recollecting how his childhood profoundly affected his adulthood, but YMMV.
I think *The Wall *is a masterpiece of modern interpretation of severe isolation and mental illness (more shades of Syd?).
Dark Side is a sonic wonder. There’s never been another album like it. 700 plus weeks on the Billboard top 100 can’t be totally wrong!
But I respect everyone’s opinion or I wouldn’t have asked in the first place.
Who cares what the group’s underlying reasons are for albums or specific songs? The Wall is a very well done hour and a half of 30 year old whinging.
Dark Side of the Moon at least had a theme. Meddle, as far as I can tell, had no such theme. Though I do love One of These Days and Echoes. Meddle was the first album of theirs I own, so don’t go off thinking I dislike it. I just think that in direct comparison to Dark Side, Meddle falls short.
It comes down to taste. I used to like The Wall and DSotM better but my preferences have changed. I like my music weird, somewhat avant-garde and bordering on a trainwreck.
If you don’t like Syd Barrett I’m also guessing you don’t like The Velvet Underground, or garage rock, or punk, or post-punk. IME people who like that music tend to like Syd Barrett’s music and not like later Floyd, while those with more traditional taste in rock music don’t like Syd Barrett and do like later Floyd.
If you want to start a thread about The Wall that might not be a bad idea. I’m not a huge fan of the album anymore and I’ll try and talk a little bit about why but I don’t want to in this thread.
Piper at the Gates of Dawn does sound dated in a lot of places to me, as does See Emily Play. I also think Sgt. Pepper is the Beatles’ most dated sounding album and I’d put it even with Piper. The first minute of Jugband Blues has aged well, and I don’t think Syd’s solo stuff is dated at all. BTW, if you think Jugband Blues is kind of scary (it’s even scarier if you see this video. There’s nobody home.) wait till you hear Scream Thy Last Scream.
Syd Barrett is also considered by some to be one of the best guitarists. I read a book about great guitarists and he was in there. To be honest, none of his guitar playing has really stood out to me except Golden Hair (and for all I know it’s not even him playing). When people talk about him as a guitarist they mention that he ran his lighter along the strings to get interesting sounds, which puzzles me because slide guitar wasn’t new even in the 60’s.
Actually, I’d like to see someone like Wordman to weigh in on Syd Barrett as a guitarist. Is there anyone friendly with him who’d like to PM him and ask him to join the conversation?
Barrett has had a big influence too. David Bowie was a fan. R.E.M. were big fans and have covered some of his songs. While looking up videos I saw some covers by John Frusciante (the original guitarist for the Red Hot Chili Peppers). There’s a song by the Television Personalities called I Know Where Syd Barrett Lives that was a tribute to him done in his style while also poking a little fun at the production on his PF music.
I also hear his influences in the music of bands as diverse as The Smiths, Neutral Milk Hotel, The Church and Beat Happening.
Eh. I fully admit that I should probably give it another listen, as it’s been some ten years since I last played it all the way through. And it is quite well produced.
But…
[ul]
[li]Most of the songs feel like incomplete ideas. Concept albums are all well and good, but it’s nice if most of the songs can… well… stand on their own. At least to an extent.[/li][li]It’s waaaay Roger Waters dominated, and the music suffers as a result. There’s some truly epic, classic, Gilmour guitar playing here and there, but it’s like a solo album.[/li][li]I’m very anti-double-album due to the heavy bloat factor; The Wall really exemplifies this, possibly moreso than any other[/li][li]I hate to harp on this, but… the songs? There isn’t a whole lot there. Especially for a double album.[/li][/ul]
*To be fair, your question–and this thread in general–really makes me feel like I need to listen to it again, as a whole as indicated above. As in, it would be good for me; not just for review/evaluation purposes. Lord only knows what happened to my bulky 2-disc old-school Columbia Records CD-in-the-double-wide-plastic-case-with-the-red-block-letter-side-printing copy of it. So, I’ll remedy that when I can. (I’m not expecting my opinion to change drastically, but I’ve been wrong about that before.)
**And this definitely isn’t anything against ol’ Rog… not only was he perhaps the most important, essential, even, member of the band, but in my nearly-head-to-head comparison of seeing Watersless Floyd in '94 and Waters with a different band in '96, Roger came out on top in a big way. That counts for quite a bit, as far as I’m concerned.
***I really very strongly believe that any double album ever made would have been much better as a single album. Or two albums, sold separately. Or an album with bonus material released after the fact. And I only grant partial forgiveness to double albums released in the LP era (no forgiveness at all to double CDs… I don’t care who you are, you don’t have more than 80 minutes of brilliant new material to release all at once). No, I don’t want to hear about your White Album. Exile on Main Street is excellent, but soooo bloated. Don’t even get me started on Physical Grafitti. Probably warrants its own thread.
I listened to Piper again today as a result of this thread, and I really got into his guitar playing. I think it influenced my own style much more than I remembered.
As for the lighter, I’d have to listen for that in particular, but I don’t think he used it as a slide per se (certainly not in the Duane Allman or Mick Taylor kind of way). More of an effect.
OTOH, a wall at a local elementary school is decorated with a playful boy and girl drawn in 3D with bricks. It might not have been creepy at first, but it became totally creepy after The Wall was released.
The night The Wall was released a local station played it in its entirety. I listened and was reminded of a roommate/DJ who introduced Led Zeppelin’s Dyer Maker as, “Another of Led Zeppelin’s many Disco favorites.” Totally commercial yet sadly over-personal, an odd achievement.
Syd’s guitar playing
In my opinion Syd is a very mediocre guitar player technically speaking, however he was experimental and distinctive which can count for a lot more than technical ability.
I seem to recall that David Gilmour was given a bit of stick when he joined the band for “trying to sound like Syd” but it was actually David who had taught Syd much of what Syd knew about playing the guitar. Gilmour is also no technical genius, he openly admits his fingers are slow and so he tries to work to his strengths which is a sense of melody, space, and an ability to compliment the music. I do find that when Gilmour is being experimental with his guitar, such as the whale sounds in Echoes, it sounds a hell of a lot more musical than when Syd was getting out there.
The Band Members
The five main members of Pink Floyd each have strengths and weaknesses that compliment each other in a big way.
Syd
The problem (and strength) with Syd Barret is that he was pretty good at writing 60s pop tunes with a touch of weird. That was great in the 60s but that sound did not date well, the production values and feel of the music has just become incredibly dated and so it’s hard to listen to it in the way you would had you been hearing it for the first time in the 60s.
Roger
Water’s on the other hand could write lyrics. He’s not the best lyric writer out there, but he’s the best PF had after Syd got kicked out, and he didn’t seem to suffer from writer’s block, he had an opinion and he was able to put it into words. But musically he’s weak. His bass playing is simple and uninspired and a lot of his work has pretty weak music in general. You get the feeling that much of his solo music, either under his own name or written by him and performed by PF, is just a vehicle for his lyrics.
David
Then there’s David Gilmour. Some would say “boy you were lucky mate, to get into Pink Floyd when you did”, but I think Pink Floyd would have gone nowhere without him, Pink Floyd were lucky to get him. Gilmour is proof that there is a lot more to playing a musical instrument than being able to fit lots of notes into a bar. He has a good ear for the over all sound of the musical piece and he can play something that compliments the music. If Roger Waters is the “Voice of Pink Floyd”, then along with Rick Wright, David is the music of Pink Floyd. He can also sing which is more than can be said for Roger. Unfortunately he’s probably only written a few good lyrics in his life and he knows it which is why you see so many different writing credits on the Gilmour lead albums. Gilmour is reticent and doesn’t relish pouring his heart out onto paper, that’s what his guitar is for.
Rick
Which brings me to Rick. By all accounts he was a bit of a pain in the arse, flakey, and unreliable when it came to writing music. But he had a great sound and nice ear for chords. David Gilmour has attributed Rick as being the most responsible for the sound of Pink Floyd. The layers of keyboards and synths providing the canvas for the other players to paint on if you like. You can hear it in the difference between A Momentary Lapse of Reason and the Division Bell, regardless of which you like or don’t like, the Division Bell sounds a lot more like Pink Floyd due to the presence of Rick Wright. A stand out example is Wearing the Inside Out.
Nick
Nick Mason was the right drummer at the right time. He found himself playing with a bunch of guys who were no virtuosos and for much of their career, didn’t make any great demands of him. He has a nice lazy playing style that fits in very well with the music the other guys were creating. He also has a great groove beat that he used to good effect in part of Echoes and on Pigs from Animals. On the other hand he couldn’t cope with relatively simple beats on some songs and they had to use a session drummer. I think Two Suns in the Sunset is one of those songs.
Conclusion
Seeing the guy’s strengths as I’ve laid out above it should come as no surprise that their best work came when they were working well together. When Roger was writing interesting lyrics, Rick was laying the musical foundations, David was adding musicianship, and Nick keeping up on the drums. No surprises then that in my opinion their best songs and albums have all of their names in the credits.
Water’s lack of commercial success
I think this also partly explains Roger Water’s relative lack of success under his own name, even when playing Pink Floyd songs. Sure part of it is simply that the name Pink Floyd is way bigger than any of the band members, but also when Roger Waters fronts a band playing Pink Floyd they sound like a cover band. With out Gilmour’s guitar and Wright’s keyboards the Pink Floyd sound, which is what many people like, is not there. I watched Comfortably Numb from one of Roger’s concerts the other day on YouTube. The verses sounded great with Roger singing, but the choruses and guitar solos really missed Gilmour’s voice and guitar (sorry Doyle Branham II.)
Closing thoughts
I like the music from all the eras to some extant but I find the Syd stuff to be much harder to listen to. If I’m in the right frame of mind I can enjoy it, but sometimes it’s just unlistenable to me. There are a few that I always like, the more poppy ones I suppose, like See Emily Play. I really like the early post-Syd stuff like Ummagumma, More, Meddle etc. Though I find some of the individual contributions on Ummagumma to be unlistenable (particularly Nick Mason’s.) On the other hand I think Gilmour’s The Narrow Way is brilliant, it introduced me to that trippy acoustic guitar overlaid with slide guitar sound that is present in a more mellow way on A Pillow of Winds. To the poster who asked, Syd did not feature on Ummagumma but one of his songs did (Astronomy Domine.) Syd only played on The Piper at the Gates of Dawn and a little bit on A Saucer Full of Secrets.
Personally I think Obscured by Clouds is an under-rated PF album. It was a bit of a departure for them in that some of the tunes rock out a bit more and tended more toward short pop songs. The stand out track for me is Childhood’s End, I love songs where Gilmour gets a bit gritty with his vocals. I’m also a sucker for a nice chord progression and I think Rick Wright’s Stay is fantastic.
I think over all The Dark Side of the Moon is a better album than Meddle, but mainly because it is very consistent. There aren’t any weak songs on DSotM like there are on Meddle, but there also aren’t any as good as Echoes either.
Well that’s my take and I haven’t really touched on the 70s at all. I used to be a big Pink Floyd fan but I’ve grown away from it a bit now. For a long time they were the only band that I could almost guarantee that I’d like every song on an album. I could just put one on and listen to it from start through to finish.
I was introduced to PF around the same time I was introduced to a LOT of bands that were running just this–or the other–side of a trainwreck. Pop pabulum was mildly entertaining, if I’d been drinking, but it was not interesting, if I were sober. A younger me would dismiss the fans of post-SB, especially DSotM, PF as little better than David Cassidy fans. I like to think I’m better than that now, but I am not. Their taste is in their mouth and their understanding of music is in the toilet. The sooner they realize that the happier they will be. 
I’ll take “Scarecrow” and “Apples and Oranges” over the Ummagumma studio disc any day. Talk about unlistenable! (And I’m a Floyd freak.)
Try “The Madcap Laughs” for a good intro to solo Syd.