Pure speculation. They’re guessing that might have triggered the attack. They have no more clue than you do. And again, you have NO IDEA how those dogs were raised or treated. None.
I didn’t know we had a time limit we were allowed to provide evidence from. So if it falls outside your random parameter it doesn’t count?
Because they are among the strongest dogs there are, and the people who get them often do so because of their strength and train (or don’t train) them accordingly.
Yet you keep posting cites from the U.K. and other countries to bolster your case without knowing a single thing about their reporting procedures.
Again, you are having to go back as far as 2 and 5 (2011 and 2007) years for these attacks, one of which is outside the USA, only one was fatal.
I have shown examples where the USA had 3 and even 4 fatal pit attacks in a matter of days, not even weeks, or even months, in this year (2013).
No other breed or type of dog killed more than one person in 2013, pits will end 2013 killing 30 humans, or 94% of the sum.
Of course there were other fatals, even in 2007:
In 2007, there were 35 fatals. Pit bulls killed 60%, or 21, of the 35. Singling out any one of the other fatals by other breeds, only bolsters the case for BSL.
Here is the transcript of a video just released YESTERDAY, from a mother whose child was killed by her pit bull THIS YEAR (video is on State Representative Waites Facebook page)
Atlanta, GA - On April 24, Beau Rutlledge, 2-years old, was horrifically mauled to death by his family’s pit bull in Fulton County, Georgia. The family had owned the pit bull, Kissy Face, for eight years without any aggression issues.
On Thursday, State Representative Keisha Waites posted this moving video to her Facebook Page. The video is a conversation between Rep. Waites and Angela Rutledge, Beau’s mother, discussing why Rutledge supports Bully Breed Legislation.
Partial Transcript:
When I came downstairs, it wasn’t because I heard anything. It wasn’t because I heard a scream or any banging. I don’t even to this moment understand how I did not hear anything. There was no music playing in my house.
It was so quick.
My son had puncture wounds in his neck. Gashes in his head. And he laid there, and I screamed so loud …
I ran upstairs to go get my cell phone so I could call 911. I couldn’t even call 911 because I kept slipping in the blood, and I kept dropping my phone…
The reason why I am supporting this legislation is to undo the lie.
There’s a horrible rumor out there saying that nature will submit to nurture.
It’s almost like if you were to get a lion as a cub – They are very innocent and very sweet, but there comes a point … They are ticking time bombs. You cannot reach into their minds to know what is going to click on that detonator and set them off. You just don’t know… I believed that if you loved these dogs and took care of these dogs – Kissy Face was never chained up, never tethered, never kenneled. She has slept in a bed … She wore pink. There were times when I got a pedicure, she got a pedicure. When I was getting my nails done, she was getting her nails done.
I want to see something done where people are not blind sighted by propaganda…
[Speaking to families who own pit bulls]
Ponder this one thing: Would you rather keep your dog and take that chance, and grieve for a lifetime, or would you rather put that dog down and grieve for just a moment?
There is no comparison in the grief. I have put a pit bull down, and I have also put a child down. The child is a lot more painful.
A TWO-YEAR-OLD should never be left UNATTENDED in a house where the mother is on an entirely different LEVEL of the house. That right there is so fucking irresponsible it’s unfathomable. But not only did this twit leave her two-year-old ALONE, she left it in proximity to a big, strong DOG.
Dogs will bite. MY dog bit people and it was a little dachshund. The only reason my friend Robyn’s face wasn’t ripped off entirely when he bit her in it was because if his SIZE. I was bitten IN THE FACE by a terrier that was laying in its dog bed doing nothing when I was petting it. It just unexpectedly lurched up and took a hunk out of my lip. The only reason I didn’t need my own extensive plastic surgery was because of its SIZE.
But you don’t read about THOSE maulings in the newspaper so you get a completely SKEWED impression of the relative rates of dog maulings in this (or any other) country.
Anyone who would leave a two-year-old child alone with ANY DOG regardless of breed is a FUCKING IDIOT, no matter how often she gave it pedicures! She was unbelievably NEGLIGENT and she’d rather blame the dog than herself for doing something STUPID. If she’d left her kid alone on another level of the house next to a bucket of water and the kid drowned in it, would she want to ban buckets of water or would she take some fucking RESPONSIBILITY for her own actions that caused that tragedy?
I’m very sorry for your personal loss. Truly I am. But that’s no excuse for you to continue your utter ignorance on this matter.
Actually, the ignorance is on your part. Do you really, REALLY, want me to plaster this debate, with links to recent cases of pit bulls that broke thru doors and even plate glass, to attack owners and neighbors alike?
You don’t have to leave a toddler alone with a pit bull, or even a healthy adult. There are many documented cases where pit bulls crashed thru doors and windows to attack people of all age groups, owners and non-owners alike.
Here is a case this year in Louisville where a toddler was mauled by the neighbors pit bull that entered the door uninvited
“The dog came through the door, went under the table and grabbed the little baby by it’s head, you know, slinging it around,” explained Virgil Hollon, a family friend. “I threw my foot on its neck, kept stomping its head until I got it turned loose, and then I pushed the baby back.”
Another
Nov 2011, Winton, CA; Pit Bull “Smokey” rushes in through sliding glass door to maul 3 year old boy. Life flighted to Fresno area hospital with severe injuries to face and head
Oct 2006, Woodbine, NJ; An 18 year old boy is up in his bedroom when his two pit bulls ghetto-shark him. His parents rescue him, then barricade themselves in the upstairs bathroom while the wigglebuts chew through the door. Police pull them out of the window like the house is on fire and the boy is airlifted dues to his injuries.
Family members became alerted to the situation, and came to the teen’s rescue. They managed to pull him away from the dogs, and barricaded themselves in a bathroom. Wait, there’s more.
Police arrived on the scene, and realized they needed to get the family out of the house. An officer climbed onto the roof, and started pulling each family member, one by one, out the bathroom window. It was that bad. These dogs were bent on continuing their savage attack.
In fact, the police arrived just in time. They say the bloodthirsty dogs were minutes away from reaching the family - they had almost completely gnawed their way through the bathroom door.
The 18-year-old is in bad shape. He was airlifted to the Atlantic City Medical Center, and is in serious condition.
I have another were an adult couple were suddenly mauled by their own pit bull. They locked themselves in their bedroom, while calling 911. The pit bull actually ran full steam head first into the door, and busted a hole thru it. The door itself stayed closed. It then badly mauled its owners. The police took a photo of the door with a silhouette of the pit bulls outline - where it crashed thru a door, in its quest to maul the hands that fed it.
Shayna my friend… as someone with a great deal of debate stamina, I have to say I admire yours. cougar has certainly persuaded me… that his emotional, irrational, hysterical fear and loathing of pitbulls is 100% impervious to anything which does not support his emotional, irrational hysterical fear and loathing of pitbulls.
We’ve provided the facts for the peanut gallery, he will continue to grab the next person who wanders in and plaster them with the grisliest stories he can dig up. He has vividly demonstrated his shameles willingness to creatively reconfigure the truth to say the opposite, he has made his agenda clear. So who am I to try and deprive him of something he clearly gets a great deal of juice from?
Everybody needs a hobby. Obsessively cataloging dog attacks is his.
Why don’t setters maul their owners? They do; here are some examples. Doesn’t count — they didn’t all happen this year.
Upbringing doesn’t matter — here’s a pampered pit that mauled a two-year-old. A two-year-old who was left unattended, two floors below where her mother could even get to her, let alone keep an eye on her. Doesn’t count, since a different pit bull went through a door.
Every mauling is recorded in newspapers. No they aren’t; my face mauling wasn’t. Nor was the time our dog nearly took off a friend’s face. Doesn’t count, it wasn’t a pit bull.
So I’m fucking done here. This arrogant asshole likes to fancy himself a know-it-all in spite of knowing very little. In order to hold onto his fantasy, he has to dismiss every element of irresponsibility on the part of the dog owners, placing full blame on the dogs alone. In his world people aren’t responsible for squat, even the safety of infants like the one who was dragged from its swing while his father SLEPT in another ROOM.
It’s fucking absurd and I’m done playing this little prick’s game.
I applaud your neat summary! Nicely done, concise, clear. Bravo.
I think it might be harsh to say that cougar is a dick, though…that implies that his agenda is to, well, be a dick. And maybe it is, but I don’t think so, not at all. I think he actually believes himself. People whose attitudes, beliefs and preoccupations are fear-driven generally believe what they are saying, I have found, even though they will consciously leave things out and avoid things, they do so because they believe it is in the service of what they honestly believe is the truth. To the extent that the information they are twisting or avoiding doesn’t conform to what they believe as a result of their fear, they rationalize it away.
I am giving cougar the benefit of the doubt in saying that I believe this is true of him as well; it’s really not that the facts are actually penetrating and he just wants to argue, the facts don’t penetrate. If they do, there is a reason that allows him to dismiss them.
I count myself lucky that I am not a fear-driven person for the most part. It seems a rough way to live.
You are so incredibly dense it is almost amazing. Skywatcher just presented you with a study showing 5 factors that have more impact than breed and your only response is to stick to the same bullshit.
About how long do you think it’s going to take to get people to come to the same ignorant conclusions you have?
Not to mention “that in 80% of cases, the breed of the dogs involved could not reliably be identified. In only 18% of cases were they able to clearly identify the dog’s breed.”
Just for fun, let’s play along with cougar ignoring the research showing the grossly inaccurate breed identificationand pretend that it IS 65% pits.
None of the factors have*** anything to do with a particular kind of dog in any respect***; nothing about the way the dog is built, the way it’s bred, the way it looks, nothing about magical locking jaws, killer instincts, bite force. **Every single factor **describes some aspect of the behavior and/or choices and/or abilities of human beings, either the victims (1, 2, 4) or the dog owners (3, 5, 6, 7).
Let’s pause and consider that. ALL of the factors relate to human beings and their behavior. NONE of the factors relate to the dogs outside the actions of the human beings. NONE.
And the report specifically says that breed is not a factor:
So in light of this, why would anyone suggest that banning any breed would make any difference?
But that isn’t all; every single factor describing the behavior of the human dog owner is behavior seen at a much higher rate among owners of pit bulls: they are more likely to keep unpedigreed dogs to fight and breed for other purposes, more likely to leave them outside as part of the overall strategy of trying to have a mean dog and/or give the impression of being badass themselves - not something we see so much with the owners of retrievers and setters and pointers.
And, most significantly, pitbulls are abused at a much higher rate, currently estimated by the Humane Society to be 25% of all dog abuse cases. ONE in FOUR.:eek::mad: And that’s just an estimate based on the reported cases. Given the fear and hostility that so many feel towards pits, it doesn’t seem likely that people would be quite as moved to report abuse against them as against more beloved breeds, so to have pits still constitute 25% of the reports makes it a near certainty that they are actually being abused at two or three times that rate.
So if it really is 65% pits doing the killing, it actually makes perfect sense. What does not make any sense is banning them because of the behavior of a small but significant subset of the human beings who choose them and then treat them like shit.
A Valencia County woman was killed by a Pit Bull Friday afternoon.
The incident occurred at approximately 4:30 p.m. at the woman’s home off Crawford Road in Jarales, just south of Belen.
According to the Valencia County Sheriff’s Department, the woman’s son came home and found his mother dead from the attack. He killed the dog immediately following the attack.
Sheriffs say the woman owned a total of seven dogs and that the dog that attacked her was one of hers.
Valencia County Animal Control has taken the remaining dogs into custody. It is unknown at the moment what will happen to those dogs."
Nutters worse nightmare = the morning news
“Tis but a flesh wound” (said the Black Knight, as both arms and both legs are cut off…“come on back and fight me”)
Me thinks the Black Knight owned and defended pit bulls.
Black Knight: I’m invincible!
King Arthur: …You’re a loony
King Arthur: [after Arthur’s cut off both of the Black Knight’s arms] Look, you stupid Bastard. You’ve got no arms left.
Black Knight: Yes I have.
King Arthur: Look!
Black Knight: It’s just a flesh wound.
Those 2 infamous quotes came from Karen DeLise, pit owner/ nutter, author of “the pit bull placebo” and founder of the so-called self titled NCRC National Canine Research Foundation.
In fact, she only considers them a pit bull, if the police were able to obtain the dogs breed papers. Even in cases where they had the pit bull, the owners acknowledged they were pit bulls, as did animal control, the police, relatives and neighbors, and photos were published.
I wrote extensively on this claim, and her count matched exactly only cases where the breed paperwork was in hand. And some very wise SDMB readers made a very observant comment: pit bulls existed long before breed registrations.
Fact: even if pit fatals were split 8 ways, they would still outnumber all other breeds in 2013.
And that’s just an estimate based on the reported cases. Given the fear and hostility that so many feel towards pits, it doesn’t seem likely that people would be quite as moved to report abuse against them as against more beloved breeds, so to have pits still constitute 25% of the reports makes it a near certainty that they are actually being abused at two or three times that rate.