Everyone “knows” that pit bulls are vicious so that’s what tends to gets reported, whether or not a pit bull was actually involved.
20 years ago, everyone “knew” that dobermans were vicious; 40 years ago, everyone “knew” German shepherds were vicious; 100 years ago, everyone “knew” bloodhounds and Newfies were vicious. Eventually, some other breed will have replaced the pit bull as the “really vicious” one. It’s confirmation bias but go ahead and keep barking up that tree.
You know folks, there is some middle ground on this topic. Pit Bulls are more dangerous/deadly than most other dog species. That does not mean that Pitt Bulls are bad dogs, in fact, their natural disposition is loving and friendly. But if they do attack someone or another animal, for whatever reason, the results are going to be a lot worse than an attack from a Doberman or a Golden Retriever. It seems only logical and sensible to treat the Pit Bull breed with some degree of caution. Everyone here is arguing only one side of the debate, I don’t see anyone acknowledging that there is any middle ground on this topic.
First, what evidence do you have that pit bulls are more dangerous? Because there isn’t any.
What there IS evidence for is the way some *human beings *have bred, trained and otherwise influenced the lives of otherwise normal dogs so that they end up acting in ways that lead people to believe that they are somehow inherently different than other dogs.
The only “bred in” semi-truth about pits is the fact that some lines tend to be more animal-aggressive, and I believe most of us have readily acknowledged this.
Everything else you can point to and call evidence is actually a result of:
•the way they are raised and treated
and/or
•the enormous population of them in this country compared to other breeds or mutts
and/or
•mis-identification of any dog that looks similar to an American Pitbull Terrier or Staffordshire Terrier being labeled a pit bull.
And evidence for these statements has been provided again and again and again throughout this thread. Not via single news stories of questionable accuracy seeking to sensationalize, but from professionals, professionally gathered data, statistics, etc.
Pit-like dogs are the dog of choice among human beings who wish to be or appear badass.
Pit-like dogs are also the target of people who are cruel, irresponsible, hateful assholes. (Again, statistics- they are by far the most widely abused and neglected type of dog in this country)
Between the two types of human beings, a lot of otherwise perfectly lovely dogs end up mean, fearful, aggressive, and otherwise ill-behaved. It’s not the dogs’ fault.
Anecdotally, I’d just like to chime in and say that I was defending pit-like dogs long before I ever had one or dreamed of having one. My Zusje has amazed me, though, with how insanely sweet she is. I’ve had cocker spaniels, Golden retrievers, and Preston, who is a Rottweiler/Border Collie/?, and of all the dogs, Zusje is the only one that has never once, under any circumstances, towards either humans or animals, demonstrated the tiniest flicker of anger, aggression, irritation or anything else that could ever be considered cause for concern. She is relentlessly tolerant, submissive, and sweet.
Even when Preston bit her a couple of weeks ago in the wake of her having a seizure… he’s a sweetie, too, and that shocked me but I found out it’s not unusual for bonded dogs to attack their pals after seizures. She’s confirmed with epilepsy now, but thank goodness Preston has decided he can handle it.
So, you deny that Pit Bulls have incredibly powerful jaws and that when they clam down on something with their jaws they hold on with a refusal to let go?
You are claiming Pit Bulls are more ‘dangerous/deadly than other species’ do you have any evidence to back that assertion? Do you think a 60 pound bit bull is always more deadly than a 60 pound doberman or golden?
It’s kind of interesting you choose 2 breeds that are a size catagory about pit bulls. Both goldens and dobermans are larger and more powerful than pit bulls. Being larger and stronger they have more potential to do damage than pit bulls.
It’s rather hard to find middle ground with people who don’t understand the facts available.
All dogs have the potential to be dangerous, singling out one breed over another isn’t making anyone safer.
There is no comprising with people who want to ban or restrict a breed based on missinformation.
This is not a unique trait to pit bulls.
Well I said Doberman but I meant to say Dalmatian, sorry, I got my breeds mixed up. Now: do you deny that Pit Bulls have incredibly powerful jaws and that when they clamp down on something with their jaws they hold on with a refusal to let go?
Pit bulls have a bite pressure consistent with their size. That being said, no I don’t think it’s incredibly powerful. Many other breeds can produce more bite pressure.
I haven’t met a breed of dog that doesn’t love a game of tug oh war. Most breeds refuse to let things go, ‘drop it’ is something all dogs need to be trained in.
Ok well I’ve played tug of war with lots of different dogs and playing it with my Pit Bull was an entirely different experience from other dogs. Maybe their jaws are not disproportionately powerful, they seem disproportionately more powerful but I am not an expert on dogs or dog physiology, that is just the sense I get when looking at their very very powerful head/jaws.
What about Pit Bulls being the meanest/toughest/deadliest breed of dog for a dog fight? I thought that it was pretty well established that they were. But I could be wrong. You seem to know about the topic so what is the answer to this question?
All the bully breeds have a penchant to hold on…bulldog types were bred for about two thousand years to bite and hold onto bulls/livestock. But that’s a matter of a degree in the dog’s preference; as said above, all dogs hold on to a tug toy. I don’t see how that would make any of them more dangerous than breeds bred specifically to attack humans.
I think people who think pit bulls are uniquely dangerous are just drawn to the idea that there is some super dangerous animal. It’s too bad Tyrannosaurs Rex is extinct; they could focus on those instead.
Firstly, the whole idea of deadly dogs is statistically an extreme edge case. One collection of data I saw established that over a 40-year period running from…uh, I forget, but it was like 2006-to-going-back 40 years, the average number of dogbite fatalities in the United States – from ALL causes, including police dogs and the like – was 17 per year. Currently it’s a bit higher, running 25-30 per year or so, but our population is much higher than it once was. The drawstrings to Venetian blinds kill more people each year than all dogs combined.
Secondly, the most dangerous dog an average person is going to encounter is one crossing a superhighway.
I haven’t read this whole thread, because it would be bad for my blood pressure. But the guy who wrote The Anatomy of the Dog, a standard veterinary textbook, is on record as saying there is no difference between a pit bull’s jaw and any other breed’s jaw. I can dig out an actual cit if you think I’m kidding, but it’d just be busy work.
Well, I definitely would of thought otherwise but it would be kind of hard for me to try to say I knew more than an expert on the subject.
You do know there’s a study showing essentially exactly that, right? I mean, you’ve been active in these debates, surely you’ve done the reading, right?
National Canine research Council’s 2007 media study [warning: PDF]
Well, you’re being civil enough, let me dig up a cite for you so you don’t have to take my word for it.
From Erie SPCA (just a random Google hit I turned up, but not a pit bull “advocacy” organization either).
I don’t know a lot about dog fighting. I know human aggression and dog aggression are very different things. A dog that’s aggressive towards other dogs may not show any aggression towards people and vice versa. How good a dog does in a dog fight may have little to do with it’s potential to do damage against humans.
I don’t put much thought into rumors or the activities of criminals. trying to ascertain information from what they do is hardly scientific, it’s often based in ignorance.
Tide is stolen more frequently than any other laundry detergent, should we assume Tide is the best laundry detergent?
OK, but could the “lockjaw” phenomena be a trait of behavior that is purposely bred? I think one thing that makes it hard too objectively think about this topic is the mental image of a strong ferocious dog clamping down on your arm/leg. Maybe they are no different than any other breed but it is an image that is hard to get out of the mind.
I could be wrong about my comments and opinions. One thing I can say that is due to public perception it makes it hard to own a Pit Bull and blend in with everyday society when taking the dog for a walk. People are scared of Pit’s and that itself is kind of something you have to deal with when walking the dog.
That is definitely true in my experience. I’d never pursue owning a pit-bull for that reason.
I took in my current dog from a family friend, the original owner was going to ‘let him free’ when he moved. The family friend who was his groomer, said she’d take him but couldn’t actually do so, so my sister convinced me to take him. He was about a year old when I got him. He is a 100 pounds short haired mutt. He is rather solid. When I applied to have him neutered through a state subsidized neuter spay program for pit bulls he was rejected as they didn’t think he was a pit mix. I took him to my vet for his neuter and he has been listed as a boxer/mastiff mix.
Many people identify him as a pit, it’s comical how relieved they are when I they ask his breed and I say ‘boxer/mastiff’ He’s a 100 pound dog very athletic dog you don’t know, pit or not if he decided to eat someones face his breeds not going to make a difference.
:rolleyes:
That kinda talk may work for you in Great Debates, but this is the pit. Fucker.
This:
and this:
are exactly how the breed gets demonized. Remember the media gets ratings from being shocking, getting a reaction from their readers/viewers. So if a dog bites someone and it looks or sounds mean, odds are very high the media will tag it as a pit bull. Lots of times the dog in question is actually a laborador, doberman, or what have you.
BTW, this is a long thread and I don’t remember if I’ve already said this, but since Crucible keeps bringing it up: I’m not really a pit bull fan, or fan of any of the bully breeds. I prefer dogs with long noses and don’t stink or drool. I am rather particular, in fact. But I have met lots of nice bully dogs and it irks me when ignorant people throw labels and generalizations around. Seriously, there are no dangerous breeds. Only individual animals, and definitely dangerous people!
Odds are very high that this claim was pulled at random out of the poster’s posterior.
News media do not make up breed identifications because they are nasty sorts who are mean to cute widdle puppies.