Pit Bulls (continued)

The BBQ Pit
141

My opinion:

Ive followed “most” of these threads over the past two years…I am a dog owner for many years, (40 yrs or so), maybe 30 dogs or so? Max 10 at one time, usually one or two or three any given year. Lots of rescues, abandoned dogs etc…

My sisters family currently has had and does have a rescue pit, so I’m right in the middle of the discussion ALL the time lately, trying to plan family gatherings etc, with other animals…its tricky.
I’ve owed many of the various breeds, mixed, pure etc

That said, I think it goes without saying that dogs do what they were bred for. Pits just do what they are supposed to do. ALL dogs bite things…

Bite pressure and lack of release from a pit probably has something to do with larger death and injury statistics for them… Birds dogs bite hard as well, but, not with 1200 psi of jaw strength.
Small dogs can be evil too, the consequences are just less.

I guess the only I have to say, is its not the dogs fault, that I KNOW.

fucking asshole dog fighters and breeders and abusive people are the problem.

142

And she has not posted in any other thread execpt her ATMB one since this one was started.

143

Do you do any of your work outside of the Calif. area?

144

Our parent group, Chako Pit Bull Rescue and Advocacy, is focused on the Nor Cal area. My group focuses solely on dogs at the city shelter in Sacramento.

145

Where does that number come from? The numbers I typically see assigned to pit bulls, rotts, and shepherds are in the 250-300 psi range.

Don’t get me wrong–they have a strength enough to cause serious damage, but 1200 psi?

146

Are we talking pounds of force or psi?

So it *might *be the dog’s fault. Or it might be dog fighters, breeders, or the owners.

In other words, either it’s a shitty dog, or owners that go for that type of dog tend to be shitty owners.

Pardon me while me and my family give you and your shitty dog a wide, wide berth.

147

Excellent, because if you think you can tell my dog is shitty and I’m a shitty owner, just by glancing at us, we would appreciate staying as far away from you as possible.

148

You can’t read? I’m all timestamps displayed and you’re Lute Skywatcher, and this is a BBQ pit, and you’re repeating yourself, so now who’s the one trick pony? It’s as though you’ve bitten and now you won’t let go…

What’s the game though? Sounds like she has an axe to grind just like virtually everyone who has a public opinion on the pit issue (I don’t have it anymore after seeing too many pitbull boosters foam at the mouth in discussions, best to steer clear of that shitpile except in this thread where I said fuck it and fought some ignorance). It’s not like there are clear answers anyways, but even the aspca acknowledges, albeit with delicate language that dances around it, that fighting dogs are far more potentially dangerous, because as we know… they’re fucking fighting dogs.

Anyways one would think pitbull boosters to view such tenacity with begrudging admiration.

Said it before, time to breed the fight out of fighting dogs. We made them, time to unmake them. And maybe learn the lesson about what the fuck is the outcome when you breed a domesticated pack animal to kill its own. Not too fucking hard to figure out what might happen there…

149

14 posts since 2007, hell, I was wondering who you were, too.

150

Hell me too sometimes. Longtime reader though, this place has been home to some bright minds, and the best puns. Anyways this being a BBQ pit, fuck everything!

151

At least 22 pages of ignoring requests for data and presenting anecdotes instead, ignoring content that does not agree with her, not posting any any other thread except her one in ATMB since this thread was started, etc.

152

It’s like trying to have a rational conversation with the Pit Bull equivlaent of a 9/11 Truther.

153

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

This video shows a pit, a shepherd and a Rottweiler. The Rotty has a bite force of 328, the other two around 230.

And here:

154

Except the above is not true. Pointing behavior is not virtually unknown in other dogs, it’s known in all dogs, it’s just been enhanced in pointers.

You believe that pit bulls are inherently untrustworthy, that they will go from friendly and trained and sweet to vicious killers in an instant, without reason and without warning, no matter how they were raised or what their history is.

No dog will behave that way, it is completely unnatural and against their instincts. It cannot be “bred” into them, because it is bizarre and nonsensical. Any dog that behaves that way has a neurological disorder that has broken their normal brain function.

155

I was trying to do a daily update a thread about dogs attacking people on another board. That board has fewer users than Dope, tends to be a bit skewed toward people from the UK or the commonwealth…and the reaction from users was mixed there, as well, but more on the side of, “We agree that pit bulls are dangerous and unpredictable. We just don’t want to be exposed to any of these ‘dismemberment and maiming’ stories…they remind us of the times we were attacked or we knew someone who was attacked…we don’t want to think about it…it makes us sick…so…please stop posting these links!” A few complained that pit bulls are only dangerous when they have owners that abuse them or don’t train them properly.

One user there, irate that I was pointing out mistakes made by administration of the site, flaws in the program that produced ridiculous polling results…etc…went around the net looking for me in other places, leaving negative reviews on my books for sale. He also found this site, one I had recommended to the group as a place where personal attacks and trolling were controlled, and decided that I was also cougar58.

I am not cougar58, but I admire the tenacity of that user in defending the absolutely correct point of view that, starting with pit bulls, we should remove that particular kind of threat to human beings from our civilization.

the largest chain of pet supply stores always has a doggy day care service included. They make a lot of money caring for people’s pets for short and long term care. They don’t have outside runs for them, nor do they walk them to do their business. They just hose down the place when needed.

I have a relative who started her own doggy day care business, and she happens to have a pit bull. yes, it bit another dog, but she forgave it…since no permanent damage was caused in that case. she takes in pit bulls as needed and keeps them segregated from the other pooches, walks them separately, etc.

The major chain will not take in any dog that has ‘bull’ in the name. Being interested in the subject, I asked the manager of one such store about that policy. “Have you read the statistics? The stories?” he said. “We can not get insurance for this business if we deal with them.”

So, Cougar58, whoever you are…keep up the good work, knowing that you have a lot of, millions of, supporters.

156

The real problem with the ‘pit’ is not that every one of them is a potential killer. The vast majority of them seem not to be. The problem is that some few of them actually do behave well for a time, then, for no discernible reason, attack. It is untypical behavior for the breed, but, more importantly, it is a very dangerous, sometimes fatal, behavior, and it IS something that happens to pits. More often? I don’t honestly know, but I do know that when a pit decides to attack, something or someone is going to get hurt. Many other dogs of different breeds also unexpectedly attack, but their attack is less dangerous, most of the time.

The unusual untypical attack numbers, though, are exacerbated by the actual fact that more pit bulls are owned by bad owners who abuse them than, perhaps, other dogs are so owned. This increases the chance of hazardous encounters with them.

The best choice, since human life is involved, is to err on the side of caution. Stop breeding this dangerous line, a line that does little, if anything, for humans that cannot be duplicated by less lethal dogs or other pets.

157

I stand corrected on bite pressure.

158

Unless and until the above assertion can be reliably proven to be true, nothing else matters.

Reports from family members or neighbors or friends claiming that the dog in question was a sweetheart and then suddenly, without any warning or discernible reason, tore someone to shreds, are worthless for determining the truth about the dog’s behavior. All they prove is that the people providing the reports are profoundly ignorant about dog behavior, either generally or about the dog in question. Because healthy, neurologically normal dogs do not behave that way, period.

And as a (relatively new, she’s only 8 months old) pit bull guardian myself, I think that anyone who has a pit bull or any other large, powerful dog, especially powerful dogs that may have been bred for fighting, protection, or anything similar, absolutely MUST educate themselves about biting and aggression so they understand what they should and should not do to make sure their powerful dog never poses a threat.

It’s not the breed. It’s the people. And breed laws have never been shown to be effective, so insistence on them makes no sense.

159

Your assertion that everyone who has a large, potentially dangerous, dog MUST educate themselves…who is going to enforce that MUST? No one. and people will die.

The stories about people who have a lovable pit bull who babysits their kids…and one day, the dog kills someone? those stories keep adding up. They aren’t fantasy.

How are you going to make sure those attacks don’t happen when an owner is not legally required to be an expert in aggressive dog behavior, or, even, defensive dog behavior? No, I think the breed needs to be phased out, the only way to keep people safe from that particular hazard.

then we can work on lightning strikes, I guess.

160

So are stories of welfare queens and roving gangs of young minority males raping and pillaging everything in sight.

The point is, stories aren’t always entirely fantasy, but people have a way of weaving stories around a small kernel of truth. Human brains love a good story. They help make sense of a world with very little sense.

The problem is that our brains bias towards good stories than objective reasoning. Stories might keep adding up because it’s what is really happening. But usually, stories add up because of confirmation bias. We hear something that sounds reasonable and everything is viewed through the lens of reality presented by that story.

That’s why we have science and standards for objectivity. What you have here is a bunch of anecdotes and enforcement based on anecdotes, which is only a small step up from passing laws based on urban legends (which has also happened - as mentioned above, human beings are good at making decisions based on subjective, irrational criteria).