I disagree with this. It seems to me that toy breeds are generally more vicious than other dogs, it’s easy to come across a vicious or psychotic toy dog. But you explain why, psycho toy dogs are tolerated by their asshole owners, where a full sized dog with the same behavior would be euthanized. I don’t know how many psycho toy dogs I’ve seen, snarling, snapping, shaking, eyes glazed, while their owners giggle and think it’s cute. But yes, a psycho Pekinese is less likely to kill someone than a psycho pit bull.
What you said is just about what I meant. In the unlikely event that our Peke went nuts you could throw a sack over him and haul him in. Or just drag him away on his leash. He is just not that strong. (Actually, he does occasionally, during our tug-of-war play, growl over his pull toy. And it is funny to see a ball o’ fluff trying to be fierce. If he makes an actual bark, though, he gets a reprimand and hangs his head in shame. We’d never tolerate any actual aggression. Heck, he makes a big circle around either of our cats he encounters.)
But if a pit (or a Saint Bernard, in my other example) or some other large and/or strong dog freaks out, there is nothing you can do except, maybe shoot it. Remember the unfortunate woman who was mauled by the Cana (?) dogs out on the west coast a year or so ago? Horrid.
My point was that you have to be even more careful with a big strong dog. But you’re right. A bitey toy dog could conceivably do serious harm to a child.
My lab has been attacked by pit bulls three times in the last ten years. The last time some idiot let his two massive killers off leash at the beach and they damn near killed my dog, who was on a leash: 15 really serious puncture and slash wounds. My friend had to stab one of the attacking dogs with a freaking pocketknife to get him off my dog.
I will walk a mile out of my way to avoid a home that has a pit in the yard. They frighten me to the very core. I’m also one of the dog owners who immediately leashes their dogs and leaves when someone shows up in the dog park with a pit. Thrice bitten is enough for me.
There are places where it is illegal to own a pit bull. I wish Baltimore was one of them. The neighbourhood where we live is on a downturn, and the type of people moving in are the same type who have intact pit bulls as pets. We have to move out of here, pronto.
[hyjack]
In order to get a small, hand-held device with the potential to harm or kill someone, I found that I needed to go get a license (and, in Ma, go through some rudimentary training). Of course, I paid for this. ISTM that there are many dogs who are more likely to cause injury or death than my gun*. Why do owners and breeders not have to become licensed?
(Yeah, I can think of some issues like ‘what breeds’ or ‘how do you prove breeds’ etc., but at least it would be a start. And, if we went by size, and it helped to keep pits/rotties/brazilian puma killers safe, yes, I would pay the extra to get my goldie the same license.)
*No, I have no numbers on how many people are injured by dogs vs guns. It’s just a point I’m making.
[/hyjack]
ok, now I do have some numbers. According to the CDC, in 1997 ~96,400 people went to the emergency department for gun related injuries. Yearly (no specific years cited), ~ 386,000 people require emergency department treatment for dog bites. You are roughly 4x as likely to need medical treatment for a dog bite as you are for a gun shot wound. However, gun shot wounds are roughly 2,700 times as deadly (~32,400 deaths from firearms compared to ~12 for dog bites.)
Kinda apples to oranges, I know. However, I think that it does support my point that dogs injure more people than guns.
linky 1 - dogs
linky 2 - guns
Didn’t we have a thread around here sometime where it was pointed out that a lot of dogs were being called pit bulls when they aren’t really pit bulls?
Does anyone remember that thread? Someone had linked to a website with a bunch of pictures of dogs that were all called pit bull and it asked the reader to identify the one real pit bull on the page.
You can find that site. Google “can you idenitfy the pit bull” or something.
I think it’s a dumb site.
First of all, it’s mainly addressed to people calling for an outright ban on pits.
Second of all, most of the dogs that they say, “wrong, that’s a cano corsa, not a pit bull” are still vicious dogs.
Lastly, kids aren’t walking around Baltimore with Dogo Argentinos and Presa Canarians. They’re walking around with fucking pit bulls.
Anyway, I got home the other day, and said to my wife, “let’s call animal control.”
She says, “and tell them what?”
That’s a good point.
The conversation would basically be, “there’s a guy with a pit bull that’s been in a couple fights.”
-Is your dog hurt?
No. But he hurt another dog.
-What’s that owner’s name?
Well, I know his first name and his dog’s name.
-Can you describe the dog
(well, I could, except there are 3 or 4 others that look almost identical in the same area)
-Do you know the owner’s name?
No.
-Where he lives. . .
No.
-Thanks for calling. :rolleyes:
you can describe the fucking dog,it’s owner and where they go. they’re unlicensed, remember? that, all by itself (let alone not on a leash) can be a problem for the owner. you can describe three fights, identifying the dangerous animal - you don’t think they’d be interested in an unlicensed animal with a history of attacking other dogs?
if they take no action, that’s on them.
your refusal to take any action, however, is on you.
You still haven’t answered as to whether your dog is licensed or not, and if not why not.
Nor have you said whether this is an officially sanctioned off-leash dog park or it’s just a park that dog owners have appropriated for that purpuse.
So you’re OK with mis-identifying any vicious dog that resembles a pit bull as a pit bull so that you can demonize the breed while ignoring the fact that there are many non-vicious pit bulls out there?
Guess ‘fighting ignorance’ only goes so far.
Maybe the reason that you don’t want to call the police about this is spelled out in an earlier post - ‘no one’s dog is licensed’ (including yours?) and you may not actually be properly following leash laws yourself?
The thing is, Pit Bull isn’t a term of science. It’s not the name of a species or a subspecies. It’s not a breed recognized by the American Kennel Club, the folks with the most broadly recognized authority in the US to determine breeds.
Instead, it’s a term used by folks to describe dogs, and not everyone means the same thing by it. You’re very likely to find folks using the term to describe dogs who have a strong Am. Staffordshire ancestry, as well as dogs who have a strong Bull Terrier ancestry.
That website seems convinced that only bull terriers are “real” pit bulls. But there’s no real reason to accept their judgement.
Daniel
No, I don’t.
I’ve had plenty of experience dealing with animal control in Baltimore City, and a couple incidents where my dog wasn’t hurt and one incident where an owner’s dog was hurt and I can’t even identify that owner isn’t going to do anything. People fight pits in the city. Pits have attacked children. Pits have killed cats and other dogs in other parts of the city. There are parks in the city basically overrun with pits. There are abandoned pits roaming the street from time to time. This isn’t even a blip on the radar.
catsix what’s your fucking problem and what the fuck does it have to do with the topic of discussion here?
Are you just playing “gotcha” or do you have something to contribute?
You must be a genius. Figure that out all by yourself. . .or did you just read it in my post?
That’s the fucking issue. Guess what. . .we have leash laws and licensing in place because of assholes with asshole dogs.
Smart, sane people know how to control their dogs, and know how and when and where to let them roam. And we don’t need the city council’s blanket laws to tell us how to operate. And by bringing animal control into the mix, you’re essentially destoying a system that has been running perfectly for as long as I’ve been a dog owner.
50-100 people use that park on a daily basis. It’s a gathering place and fosters community, and health for people and animals. We’re tyring to find out where the pit bull lives and are asking around, but just calling animal control out of the blue to destroy a perfectly good system has to be weighed against it’s negatives.
As a helpful suggestion, have y’all considered petitioning the city to makethe park officially a dog park? There’d be a serious advantage to this: namely, you could call animal control out to the park without pissing everyone off, as animal control would come deal with the evil dog without shooing everybody off. There could also be some signs posted that describe how people need to handle their dogs to keep everyone safe; these rules could be basically what the good people are doing now, and would be directed at the idiots who are endangering everyone else.
Daniel
Let’s just assume that Trunk’s dogs are not licensed, and that the park is just a piece of property off his back yard, and that it actually requires that he have his dog on a leash.
This makes the Pit attacking his dog less vicious………how?
I think he should license his dogs (it’s usually only ~$5.00) because perhaps having unlicensed dogs makes him less likely to call Animal Control, but I don’t really see how it’s relevant information anyway. Not to get on your shit, but this is really starting to piss me off. Someone finds a totally irrelevant piece of information and picks at it until it becomes a complete hijack.
Let it go. It’s not important. Stop already. I know you feel you have to defend the breed, but screaming “LOOK OVER THERE!” doesn’t make the anecdotal evidence in this any less impressive. These dogs are; if not dangerous, extremely scary. People are forced to carry weapons, leave parks, or walk miles out of their way to avoid these animals.
So let’s just say, that although Trunk may not be completely in the right, he certainly has a pretty valid point.
Not a chance. Multi-use park. Hopkins even leases it and uses it for things.
I’d like to pipe in to give my full support to the OP.
Pit bulls should be banned. By that I mean it should be illegal to breed and sell them. If plastic toys occassionally caused death or injury to kids, these toys are banned. More useful dangerous items such as cars are heavily regulated.
There is nothing inherently more useful or morally desirable in the characteristics of a pit bull when compared to most other breeds. Take a look at this add for the sale of pit bull puppies.
Exerpts
“Powerline Kennels”
Oooh, power!!!
“Blue American Pitbull Terriers / Blue American Staffordshire Terriers with large heads, wide chests and huge bones. Our Blue Pit Bulls are structurally bred for quality, not just for color”
Structurally bred?
What for? To be intimidating perhaps? To scare the shit out of people?
“We firmly believe that the breed ( even the Blue Pitbull / Amstaff ) should display indomitable courage while having a well balanced drive and temperament.”
Indomitable courage? Three guesses what that means.
Drive? What for?
I have no problem with blaming the pit bull killings and severe maulings on the owners. These idiots want to take a chance on the lives of their children or other people so that they might feel like more of a man by owning an intimidating machine with a record of inflicting fatalities matched by no other breed.
I Know that there are dopers who own “friendly” pit bulls. Look after them and love them. But for heaven’s sake, don’t go out and get another one. There are plenty of breeds out there that are way more amenable to the safety of society with all sorts of desirable characteristics. Every purchase of a “friendly” pit bull puppy only obscures the danger inherent in the breed and makes it more difficult to get rid of this scourge on our society.
Just look at the picture in the link. It is a beautiful looking specimen I’ll grant you that. All dress up in garb reminiscent of a knight’s steed. But it does appeal to to the aggressive part of my nature.
Just call animal control. Seriously, just do it., at least you’ll know you did what you could.
My folks had a Pyreneean (like a bigger, white Newfoundland), arguable stronger than a pit, but she had probably the sweetest nature of any dog. However, she was attacked by Alsatians several times. She sat on them. Not bit them, barked or growled at them or went for their throats, she sat on them until the stopped moving, then she let them up. If Pyreneeans were an aggressive breed, rather than oversized sheepdogs, the story would have been different, because she could have ripped them to pieces in a heartbeat.
My parents now have an Alsatian/Lab cross who walks without a leash, she is trained to ignore other dogs and although she has had dogs annoy her, knows to keep on walking. The only dogs that ever bother her are young Boxers and the like, who are just too bouncy and inquisitive for their own good, but one “walk on” and she’s by my mother’s side with a her lead back on.
I have a friend with a Staffy, who would do anything for a treat and behaved himself impeccably even with 60 people in his house at New Years. Everyone came in, ate a canape and then gave one to him…he knew he got fed last and was suitably submissive and adorable all night. Staffys are scary, but they’re nowhere in the league of Pitbulls.
Pits are not nice dogs, you get a few who are lucky enough to have nice natures anf good owners and so are able to keep their psycho natures in check, but the majority have bad genes, bad owners and aren’t safe. These are gogs bred to go into pits and attack bulls…not to be pets, or working dogs, they are FIGHTING animals and anyone who thinks otherwise is sadly mistaken.
No.
Bulldogs were bred to go into pits and attack bulls, and to hold onto their noses until they’d brought the bull to bay.
Pit Bull Terriers != Bulldog
The nose shape is all wrong, for one thing.
Whoever suggested the taser thing? BAD idea. It usually just makes matters worse. Best way to split a dog fight is pulling the dogs by the back legs (wheelbarrow style).
As for the pit problem - I think it’s a mixture of things. It’s an owner problem, and it’s a breed problem. Unfortunately I see a lot of people say, “Pits are good! It’s owners and breeders who train them to be mean!” Actually, it’s mostly owners who think, “Pits are good and sweet! Look at my little angel!” who don’t train their dogs right, don’t socialize them right, and don’t take precautions to curb breed instinct. Those people are the people who are more likely to go to a dog park, and have their pwecious pit get into a fight.
Look - I have two dogs who love to go to the dog park and play and romp around. I have one aussie who has such INTENSE prey drive that there’s NO WAY IN HELL I would let him off leash at a dog park. He’ll chase down little dogs and would likely injure them. Bad dog? No. Herding dog following instinct and drive.
I’ve met nice pits. Hell, I’ve seen a couple make it as hearing and service dogs. They are few and far between. It’s a breed temperament thing. AND it’s an owner thing. Those who are out to prove that the pit is nice and friendly and aren’t paying attention to breed characteristics are the most dangerous owners out there.
Filas are the breed of choice now for those who want a nasty mean ol’ watchdog. Truth is, I know some nice Filas - but their own breed standard says they HATE strangers. HATE. As in, will attack. It’s what they do. Not a breed for everyone.
Funny dog-instinct-story: lno and I were at a small dogpark a while back with some of our dogs. This lady had a retired/rescued racing greyhound. It played and romped with the big dogs and was having a blast… until these people came in with this little white mop dog. Guess what the greyhound did? Immediately ran over and pinned the little mop. Over, and over, and over. Thankfully the mop wasn’t hurt… but if it had decided to run, it would have.