Pitbulls

Great Debates
341

Once again, while pit bull apologists are in the middle of explaining away last months fatal pit bull attack, another family pet pit bull - that showed no previous signs of aggression - killed the owners 6 yr old son.
And before the pit bull apologists say it must have been a bad owner, the reports are that the owner is a police officer, who was once signed by the Cleveland Browns. He has a well respected record of rehabbing wayward kids.

http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/local/family-says-pit-bull-fatal-attack-never-problem/nYPLP/

So far in 2013, over 90% of all fatal attacks were by pit bulls. It was 100% up thru March.

Can we at least agree to once and for all drop the moniker “Nanny Dog”?

342

:confused: Who in this thread is using the moniker “Nanny Dog”? First I’ve heard of it. In any case, if you don’t like it then feel free not to use it.

In fact, are you sure you meant that post for this forum in the first place? The curiously disconnected tone of many of your posts and their off-topic details (a dog owner was once signed by the Cleveland Browns? who cares?) makes it sound as though you’re pamphleting the same messages across a variety of forum discussions all dealing more or less with the topic of pit bulls.

343

I’m sure you have a reliable breed identification study for that, and not just the word of a harassed local newsrag reporter, right? Hell, I’d settle for a PICTURE of the alleged “pit bull” at this point.

No. Bred-to-standard and reasonably trained pits and staffordshires continue to be exceptionally good family dogs.

344

Heh. One of the items in cougar58’s linked list notes:

345

By the by, cougar, nothing in your plethora of sensationalist news stories has addressed either A) the very real problems of breed identification of a popularly amateur/“backyard”-bred dog breed (Given that, as repeatedly pointed, out pits were specifically bred with human-docility in mind, it’s not only plausible but fairly likely that pit-bull-appearance mutts would be significantly more dangerous, temperament-wise, than purebreds.) or B) the consensus among reputable dog-owner and dog-breed-standards organizations that purebred pits/staffordshires are very stable family dogs (and note, most of those organizations WILL warn owners of potential aggression problems with breeds such as chows, which as I understand it are among the few breeds actually bred for some level of human aggression).

346

The whole shallow-statistics tragedy-reports bit is a red herring anyway, because nobody is denying that pit bulls and/or dogs that look like pit bulls and/or dogs that someone somewhere has identified as pit bulls are responsible for a vastly disproportionate number of aggressive attacks.

The question that those shallow statistics can’t answer is why this is so. In theory, it could be because the Pit Bull breeds are innately bad dogs, although breed standards organizations seem to contradict this. Or it could be because nowadays people who want a bad dog tend to seek a pit bull type, so there are a lot of bad pit-bull-type dogs out there.

347

Would you settle for an interview with the pit bull owner who confirms it was a pit bull?

and I was right, it was a police officer owner. The pit bull played with these same kids for 2 years. The victim was his nephew, not his son.

348

Which still begs the question…with all the breeds of dogs, why would someone with children CHOOSE a pit bull?

349

People like being contrary.

Tell a ten year old not to touch his nose, he’ll do it.

The fact that all these Pit Bull apologists put their own families in danger because of this irrational behavior is shocking, though. It never ceases to amaze me. Get a golden retriever.

350

this child was the 37th Californian Killed by a pit bull since sinister HB-14 precluded BSL as an animal control tool in 1989.

For comparison, Miami-Dade county passed a pit bull ban in the late 1980’s (and voted recently in an overwhelming 2/3rds 66% majority to keep the ban via ballot) and they have not had a single fatal attack since.

351

Why focus on fatalities?

Miami-Dade county has had plenty of dog attacks since then. First page on Google: http://www.wsvn.com/news/articles/local/21010168263951/2-women-1-girl-hospitalized-following-dog-attacks/

Of those attacks, 1 involved pit bulls. The other two attacks did not.

352

In fact, pit bulls were bred with human aggression, and I have the cite for proof:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/17788534/Colbys-Famous-Fighting-Dogs

“John P. Colby has bred and sold more fighting dogs than any one man in America”

Colby bred pit bulls that killed children but he didn’t brag about that in his ads! His own nephew Bert Colby Leadbetter was killed by one of his pit bulls when visiting in 1909.

Newburyport, MA - While researching fatal pit bull attacks of the early to mid 1900s, we came across the most damaging fatal attack the pit bull community has ever known. To start, in 1901 a pet pit bull killed its owner’s mistress, in 1909 a pet pit bull killed its owner’s brother, in 1945, a pet pit bull killed a 21-month old baby (just three months before fighting pit bulls killed Doretta Zinke) and in 1947, a group of pit bulls killed an 11-year old boy in the Bronx.1
Further research showed that a pit bull owned by John P. Colby, producer of prized fighting dogs, killed his 2-year old nephew.
The Death of Bert Colby Leadbetter
On February 2, 1909, one of John P. Colby’s renowned “Colby dogs” snatched his nephew by the neck, “ferociously shook him like a rag” breaking the child’s backbone and spine. The child, Bert Colby Leadbetter was quickly killed. The boy’s mother, Elizabeth Colby, had been visiting Colby’s Newburyport home on Franklin Street when the incident occurred. The mother was left “prostrated” and her husband, Richard Leadbetter was summoned from Lynn.2
Bull Terrier Kills Child
Grabs Him by Throat at Newburyport.
Bert Leadbetter, 2 Years Old, of Lynn on Visit.
Uncle John P. Colby Owner of the Dog

NEWBURYPORT, Feb 2, 1909 – Bert, the 2-year-old son of Mr and Mrs Walter Leadbetter of Lynn, was killed this afternoon by a fighting bull terrier, owned by his uncle, John P. Colby, at 36 Franklin st.
Mrs Leadbetter and her son had come here to visit her brother, who is a dog fancier. The little fellow wandered into the yard where the kennels are.
The dog sprang at the child’s neck and growling ferociously shook him like a rag. Then the savage animal, dropping its prey, snapped at other portions of the body, inflicting a number of wounds.
Mr Colby ran out, drove the dog away and bore the child into the house. He was faintly breathing, but quickly all signs of life disappeared. Medical Examiner Hurd, who was called, found that the backbone and spine had been broken at the base of the brain. The other wounds, while serious, were not necessarily fatal.
The mother was prostrated. Mr Leadbetter was hastily summoned from Lynn.
Mr Colby was very secretive about the affair and declined to give out any details. The police were not notified. Patrolman Hayes, whose beat is at the south end, heard of the death and reported it to the marshal, who ordered an investigation. The patrolman was finally able to secure the particulars.
No action has been taken relative to the dog. Mr Colby told the medical examiner that his own child3 had played about the kennels and had never been molested.
The Myth of “Culling” Man-Biters
Pit bull advocates must resort to lies to protect the breed. One of these lies is that breeders of fighting dogs culled biting pit bulls (also known as man-biters4). They even say that children are especially safe with pit bulls because “instant” culling occurred when any human aggression was shown. We know this is untrue about breeders of fighting dogs, both past and current, as well as by pit bulls today who are returned to their owners after an attack unaltered.

353

history, whether from 1909, or 2013, proves that the only culling by pit bull Aficionado’s were of those pesky preteen nephews…not human aggressive pit bulls.

354

Do you have a job, or do you just do the pitbull thing?

355

Because my child is a few hundred times more likely to die from the fact I have aspirin, a bathtub, or a backyard than the fact I have a pit bull? Hell, crib accidents cause an order of magnitude more child deaths than dogs.

The actual risk of a harmful or fatal pit bull attack is infinitesimally small, given the relatively large population of pits and pit mixes out there. It’s literally hundreds of times more risky to bathe your child in a tub than to own a pit bull.

It’s honestly as bad as the gun debate anymore–even if we just wildly assume every single fatal dog attack was a pit bull, you’re still talking about something like 1 in 200,000 pit bulls who perpetrates a fatal attack (given current estimates of between 3 and 7 million pits and pit mixes currently extant in the US).

Riddle me this, Prejteach2. Care2 is the world's largest social network for good, a community of over 40 million people standing together, starting petitions and sharing stories that inspire action. Why would a general dog breeding organization like the Animal Temperament Testing Society want to falsely show that Pit Bulls tended to be more stable than the average dog?

356

It’s really deeply amazing how you respond to a request for actual statistics with…more context-free newspaper clippings from an era even less concerned with journalistic rigor.

357

When your bottle of aspirin, or your bathtub, one day decides to escape from your property, and go on a rampage killing and dismembering innocent passerby, we will give those equal consideration.

358

I will reply.

Pull up a chair folks, while I brutally maul the ATTS and prove that is is biased in favor of passing pit bulls.

The temperament test was developed by Alfons Ertelt in 1977. Mr Ertelt was not an animal behaviorist, he worked in the print industry but his passion was dogs and he was involved in schutzhund. (schutzhund is a dog sport that mirrors the training of police dog work and it is dominated by german shepherds) The ATTS test was initially intended to test working dogs for jobs such as police work. The test favors bold dogs, dogs that need to face danger head on without hesitation and fear. Courage was desired and rewarded, timidity was not. The ATTS favors dogs like pit bulls over dogs like collies. It is important to note, the test does not evaluate dogs for “pet” suitability. It comes as no surprise that when you look at the numbers tested by breed, four of the top five breeds (5357 rottweilers, 3038 german shepherds, 1574 dobermans, 968 mixed breeds, and 893 bouviers) excel in schutzhund.
Mr Ertelt left the ATTS a few years after its inception and in 1983 formed the German Shepherd Dog Schutzhund Club of Los Angeles. In 1990 Carl Herkstroeter, his wife Carolyn, and Harriet Ann Pahlmann and Margaret B Pahlmann incorporated the ATTS into a for profit business in the state of Missouri. One year later, they created the non-profit. Records indicate there has been only a few board changes over the last 20 years.
Current ATTS scores for pit bull type dogs:
american pit bull 86%
american bulldog 84.8%
american staffordshire 83.9%
bull terrier 90.4%
staffordshire bull terrier 89.6%

Current ATTS scores for a few popular breeds of dogs in America:
cocker spaniel 81.9%
collie 79.7%
beagle 80.3%
chihuahua 71.1%
labrador retriever 92.3%
golden retriever 84.6%
german shepherd 84.2%
jack russell 84.1%
mutt 86%
pomeranian 75.8%
pug 90.9%
standard poodle 86%

Of the 30,000+ dogs tested by the ATTS to date, 82.4% have passed.

*The breed of dog with the overall lowest passing score was the skye terrier at 37.5%.
That’s right. The most dangerous, aggresiive dog in America, is the tiny Skye Terrior. Yet it has NEVER killed a human, or caused single or multiple human amputations.

Anyone with a superficial understanding of scientific method and what constitutes good science, should be able to immediately recognize the inherent problems with this test.

First and foremost is the issue of what exactly does the test measure? The ATTS website claims to measure stability, shyness, aggressiveness, friendliness, protectiveness, self-preservation. In theory, the testers consider the following during the test:
The breed of the dog (hereditary purpose)
The training the dog has received
The dog’s age
The dog’s gender
Whether it has been spayed or neutered
The dog’s physical health (dog in season)
Whether it is a house dog or kennel dog

Yet the pit bull advocates present the stats in such a way as to imply that higher scores equal less aggression and lower scores equal more aggression. According to Herkstroeter, “Just because a certain percentage of dogs in a certain breed fail, this does not necessarily indicate aggression. Dogs fail for other reasons, such as strong avoidance. If you look at our statistics just from a perspective of aggression or non-aggression, they can be very misleading.” Herkstroeter states that 95% of the dogs that fail, do so because they lack confidence to approach the weirdly dressed stranger or walk on the strange surface. The remaining 5% fail because they take longer than 45 seconds to recover from the gunshot or the umbrella. Still pit bull advocates continue to distort the meaning of the test.

Second, as per ATTS website: “Comparing scores with other dogs is not a good idea” and the test “takes into consideration each breed’s inherent tendencies”. Cocker spaniels are evaluated against a cocker spaniel standard, not against german shepherds (or at least in theory, they are not supposed to), yet pit bull advocates would have you believe that all dogs are evaluated against one another.

The third troubling aspect of this test is not only the lack of a random sample but what appears to be pit bull advocates openly conspiring to groom test candidates and cherry pick only those individual dogs that are likely to pass. This is a conscious decision done for the sole purpose of inflating the scores to improve the pit bull’s image.

The fourth major problem is in the inherent bias of the testers. Pit bull owners, breeders and advocates are in the position to pass or fail dogs that are under heavy criticism for what their critics perceive as their innate viciousness. As you will see, the testers have much discretion and a vested interest in the outcomes of the tests and they do not apply the rules fairly or consistently. There is no quality control to ensure that the testers are consistent in how they grade dogs’ behavior.

Fifth, the test acknowledges that breed of dog (hereditary of purpose) is factored into the dog’s performance and score, yet dogs are not tested in the presence of other dogs. This is especially critical with dogs that were bred to fight.

Sixth, the ATTS apparently does not require papers for purebred dogs. It seems that you can report any breed you like and do not need to provide any registry papers to prove it. One thing I find especially interesting is the flexibility around the issue of purity in pit bulls. When pit bulls attack, they are mixes but when they pass the ATTS, they are purebred, no questions asked. Just last week, Drayton Michaels made a point to say that most pit bulls were in fact not purebred pit bulls. This is another favored defense tactic when pit bull attacks hit the news media. In my experience reading all of the pit bull forums for ATTS information, discussion about the test is non-existent among the game-dog.com demographic. This group of pit bull owners is obsessed with bloodlines and pedigrees, and these dogmen do not even broach the subject of temperament testing.

Seventh, the handlers are familiar with the test, they not only know what to expect, they practice it with their dogs. In the real world, things don’t work out that way and much of a dog’s reaction can be based on the handler’s reaction to the real world “stressful” events.

Eighth, The American Temperament Testing Society is not an impartial, scientific organization discovering “truth”. They openly state their position on their website:
“Because of breed-specific dog legislation and negative publicity associated with many breeds of dogs, temperament testing has assumed an important role for today’s dog fancier. The ATTS Temperament Test provides breeders a means for evaluating temperament and gives pet owners insight into their dog’s behavior. It can have an impact on breeding programs and in educating owners about their dog’s behavioral strengths and weaknesses as well as providing a positive influence on dog legislation.”

The ATTS temperament test is scientifically invalid and unreliable. The test can not reliably predict how a dog will behave in the real world.

Pit bull apologists love to cite beloved breeds of dogs who score lower than the APBT. But the reality is collie owners are not spending hours online seeking advice from other collie owners on how to pass the test, or spending a year preparing their dogs for this test. Collie mix owners are not quizzing testers about whether or not their dogs can slip in under the radar as purebreds. Collie owners are not prescreening their dogs. Collie owners are not hiring ATTS experienced dog handlers to test their dogs. Collie owners are not cherry picking only those candidates that they think will pass the test. If they did, their breed would score higher than 79.4%. Any breed would do better under these artificial conditions. But collie owners don’t view their dogs as a cult religion and the ATTS as a bible. Most people owning normal breeds of dogs view this test as a fun way to spend the morning with their dogs. The pit bull community views this test as a get out jail free card. There is a strong push by pit bull advocates to have dogs who have passed the ATTS eligible for home owners insurance and access to housing that specifically excludes certain breeds. Take for example the military ban on pit bulls, rottweilers and others. In the instance of the Marines, owners of these dogs had 60 calendar days to successfully pass a “nationally recognized temperament test.” The City of San Francisco, which has a mandatory pit bull sterilization law, allows pit bulls that pass the ATTS to breed (Section 44.1).

Diane Jessup advising fellow thepitbull-place.com members to enter only dogs that will pass the ATTS

Pit bull rescuer, owner and advocate Ellena Thomas of the pacific northwest pit bull rescue explains the ATTS.
“Again, its so the judges know if your dog is trained in anything. For example, the last step of the test requires an aggressive stranger to approach. A protection trained dog should aggress, but a correct-temperament APBT should not.
Basically, the ATTS is an instinct test. All breeds are judged according to their proper temperament mandated for their breed. A Mastiff is allowed to be forward, assertive and in certain sitiuations, aggressive. An APBT should be friendly, a little wary with noises, quick to recover and generally happy.”

Thomas’ explanation contradicts this individual’s experience. Here pitbulltalk member Tiger describes her ATTS and her violation of the test rules while still passing.
“Doja did great and passed with flying colors. I was so proud of her.
She was the only dog tested there today that wanted to eat the threatening stranger - so she got high marks for that.
It was funny - most of the other dogs (Belgians included) only looked at him, or ignored him, Even when he was hollering and bashing a stick on the ground. But Doja hit the end of the lead like the little freight train she is and was telling him that he had best stay far away from her Mommy NOW!! Some of the people watching (including some of the testers) actually applauded a bit when she did that.”
"While we were int the ring waiting to start Dexter decided to pee! Luckily none of the testers saw it but everyone else did and they were laughing and saying “shhhhh…dont say anything!”
“Yes, he peed on the umbrella. And Rob captured it in a photo. I’m still so embarrassed. I was sure they’d fail us for that. But apparently they’re not looking for manners in this test–just responses to various stimuli.” “she didn’t even know it was happening till after I yelled NOOOOO!”
“another pit bull mix dog that was with us that day, paige, barked and lunged and kicked up the dust till the guy was gone, and she’s not protection trained at all. she passed just fine, though. they actually want the dog to identify threatening behavior–your dog gets lower marks if it fails to respond at all, like doc.”

apbtmom76
My Penny has passed this and Orion will be taking this test in a few weekends. It is a good test and they are linient about somethings.
Some testers are sometimes lenient on some aspects of the test on some dogs. It really depends on the whims and the motives of the tester.

mnp13 comments on an ambull that should have failed but didn’t.
At the test that I brought Ruby and Connor to an American Bulldog was was trained as a “Professional Personal Protection Dog” took a h-u-g-e stress poop before the first station and then turned sideways to the threatening stranger and ignored him. There is no way that dog should have passed

pitbulltalk mnp13
The CGC is meant to be a test of training and manners, the TT is meant to be a test of temperament. ideally you don’t “train the test” for the TT.
you really don’t need to worry about that because when you fill out your application for the test they ask you if your dog is trained in schutzhund or other sports, and they take that into account when evaluating. so if the dog lights up at the stranger more than a “regular” dog might, that will be considered.
another pit bull mix dog that was with us that day, paige, barked and lunged and kicked up the dust till the guy was gone, and she’s not protection trained at all. she passed just fine, though. they actually want the dog to identify threatening behavior–your dog gets lower marks if it fails to respond at all, like doc.
If a schutzhund trained Ambull fails to respond aggressively to the stranger, it passes but if a non trained husky responds it fails. The testers are not evaluating dogs consistently or fairly.

pitbullmamaliz
That’s how it is supposed to be done. However, the chief judge at my test deducted points from Inara because she “wasn’t a good guard dog.” (his exact words) Apparently he didn’t study the chapter where it says pits are not known for their guardian skills

pbf voodoo on the importance of practicing for the test
“I’ve been working with Champagne as well. She was super scared of the umbrella at first but now she tries to play with it and it’s one of her favorite toys.”

Experienced “responsible” pit bull owner, ATTS tester Leslie Haller advises pitbulltalk member hey21jude on the ATTS.
“I’m an ATTS provisional tester. Dexter would certainly pass the neutral and friendly stranger parts of the test if he acts like he did when I met him. I believe they record mixed breeds as mixed breeds. You can certainly get away with calling him an apbt.”
Leslie Haller is a school teacher.

hey21jude replies
“Hi Leslie! Glad to hear he would at least pass part of the test. I think we’d do OK for the other parts too. As long as I’m with him, he doesn’t go into “panic mode”. I would love to sign him up as an APBT just to get another passed test for the stats(If we pass).
Thanks again for all the info guys!”

pitbullmamaliz describes how her pit Inara barely passed the ATTS.
So, I then go sit in a chair and eavesdrop as best I can while the testers compare notes. The only comment I catch is one tester gave Inara a low score for the gunshots because she “looked at her mommy which is a fear response.” Well, she’s a dog who’s never heard gunshots before. I thought it was great she looked to me, but they want the dog to act like you’re not even there. I guess they wanted her to go towards the gunshots to investigate. Whatever, I liked that she looked at me for direction.
Then the chief tester came over. He gave me the thumbs up, so I got excited and said, “she passed???” He said yes and then paused. He then told me that “she’s not bad, but she’s not good.” Um, what? He very snottily told me that I have a horrible guard dog. I told him that I didn’t get her to be a guard dog. It took all I had to not ask if he was aware that this breed is not supposed to be a good guard dog, but I didn’t want to piss off the guy with my test. He then tells me that Inara has no attention span and desperately needs some obedience classes. He sighed and said, “well, she’s still young, so she SHOULD get better. Hopefully she’ll get better.”
Based on the chief tester’s comments, i would guess that this pit bull was tested among a GSD, rott or dobie schutzhund club and is either unaware that dogs without protection training should not be responding aggressively or doesn’t care.

new pitbulltalk member tradewind introduces herself to the forum.
“My name is Monique and I live in MA near Cape Cod. I have 3 Amstaffs, 1 male and 2 females. I’m active in showing, starting out in Obedience, and I am an apprentice tester with the ATTS, and I am very active in BSL.”
It is inappropriate for ATTS testers to be active in BSL.

apbtmom76 describes the appropriate response to the threatening stranger.
An acceptable raction from any dog, UNLESS it is trained n PP, is to put itself between its master and the stranger, to be on alert, to warn you but they should NOT lunge or act overly aggressive to the weird stranger

“the TT is meant to be a test of temperament. ideally you don’t “train the test” for the TT.”

apbtmom76 tested one of her dogs and gives advice to another pitbull-chat members.
“kris, practice with your dog and try it. I am not sure how Phoenix will do his 2nd time through and I truely don’t think Orion will ever pass. He is too much of a goober.”

pbf sarah
“I actually forgot and said something to Tess while I was taking her through, and it didn’t affect anything (I just said “come on pup!”, or something of that nature, after a station), so I wouldn’t get too freaked out about the potential for forgetting to be quiet.”

gsdbulldog on pre-test jitters.
“I’m still a bit nervous, so I think I’ll get a friend of mine to test my dogs now and see how they respond.”

bulldogbreeds member attitude about temperament tests.
oh hey, i know tt’s aren’t foolproof but it is a start. tt is only as good as the person doing the eval, and i have seen many (many) dogs that shouldn’t pass do so, in all of the listed tt types.
Comforting, isn’t it?

2005 Romanwild
“I know we can eventually beat the labradors!”
They are closing in.

2005 lisa mawson
“We are very close to having a higher % pass rate than GOLDEN RETRIEVERS! Of course this is no secret to us, but lets not KEEP it a secret!”
They set a goal and they achieved it. The pit bulls have surpassed the goldens.

pbf member Maryellen Harwelik (realpitbull.com) advises pblove on passing the umbrella test.
“have you tried giving her high value treats when she goes near the closed umbrella? work on it this way. then, open the umbrella a little bit on the floor, any time she goes near it, praise and treat.. keep doing baby steps with the umbrella until its fully opened on the floor, praise and treats for each time.. then, roll the umbrella, if she does not get scared, praise and treat.. its a slow process that should work.”

“And dont be nervous, we will do a walk through that morning (be there at 8-8:30!) and talk about each step of the test to help everyone feel more comfortable with it!”
All of this practice feels like like cheating to me. This is like getting all of the answers to the test before hand.

pbf Leslie Haller
I won’t test Soleil, because she’ll be unnerved by the threatening stranger, and bail out early on.
Other members chime in and explain that they also will not test their dogs because they know they will fail.

pbf Red
Personally I test only pit bulls I know are going to pass , mine or belonging to other people, because if a dog does not pass it hurts the breed statistics ( although it looks like they are not updating the numbers often).
Just something to keep in mind for anyone who wants to enter their dogs…unless the animal in question can be exposed to some stimulation for an extended period of time and don’t be bother by it keep him/her away in a vehicle or area that is quiet. Most people “park” their dogs by the testing field, which means that the dogs hear the gun shots, the yelling drunken man and dogs barking while waiting to be tested and that can be a significant amount of time. That is a lot for many dogs to handle, especially if they are not show dogs, dogs who compete in some sports or are used to the usual chaos in similar environments. By the time they enter the test their stress level has increased and moving from one station to the other end up with an animal who is overwhelmed or score low.Most test are held in conjunction with some kind of dog event so that is something to take in consideration.
Red is a dog trainer, experienced pit bull owner and experienced at taking the ATTS. She is also apparently an ATTS handler for hire as well, further insuring that a pit bulldog will pass the test with her confident demeanor and further skewing the test scores.

pbsmiles sarallyn
The ATTS is really helping to keep this breed in one piece… without them, i’m sure we would be in some deep sh**
good read, thanks for posting.
The pit bull apologia knows EXACTLY what it is doing. Unfortunately, the public is oblivious to what lies beneath the cut and paste propaganda scores.

Any 5th grader will recognize that the ATTS method of selection (quota sampling and selection bias), disqualifies it from being a statistical science:

359

UNION CITY – A family’s **pit bull **mix was euthanized one day after it bit a 6-year-old boy who later died at a hospital, police said Wednesday.

360

[quote=“Zeriel, post:355, topic:657969”]

Because my child is a few hundred times more likely to die from the fact I have aspirin, a bathtub, or a backyard than the fact I have a pit bull? Hell, crib accidents cause an order of magnitude more child deaths than dogs.

The actual risk of a harmful or fatal pit bull attack is infinitesimally small, given the relatively large population of pits and pit mixes out there. It’s literally hundreds of times more risky to bathe your child in a tub than to own a pit bull.

It’s honestly as bad as the gun debate anymore–even if we just wildly assume every single fatal dog attack was a pit bull, you’re still talking about something like 1 in 200,000 pit bulls who perpetrates a fatal attack (given current estimates of between 3 and 7 million pits and pit mixes currently extant in the US).
Using your logic, , chances of a child getting shot with her fathers loaded gun is very small…so therefore it’s defendable to have loaded guns around kids.
The risk of a out bull attack may be small, but compared to other breeds it isn’t infinitesimal and I don’t know why one would choose that breed with children , knowing that it has the highest rate of serious attacks, and whenever they attack you hear the same thing, “but he was so sweet”