If you do some investigation, you’ll find that cougar58 posts similar screeds wherever she/he/it can. Chill and give your pup a hug.
Contrary to what the NCRC “National Canine research Council” founder Karen Delise says in her book “The Pit Bull Placebo” - where her only reference to police interaction with pit bulls is her claim that “police ride into town with both guns blazing at anything that resembles a pit bull”,
the brave police officers of the USA, 3 times in the last 3 days, had to use deadly force on mauling pit bulls. One was to save a 72 yr old man whose pit bull attacked him as he was walking it. Another was an elderly couple had a pit bull iterally break into their house, and maul their golden retriever inside their house, as well as the old man who lived there.
Another was a woman walking a pit bull in a park, that started mauling a jogger.
In each case, the maulings persisted until police arrived, and deadly force was thier only option.
3 times in a single week, 4 lives were saved by police risking their lives, and using deadly force.
I will post the cites if anyone really doubts me (besides Zellier)
PS the pit bull that broke into the elderly couples home, and mauled the old man and his golden retriever inside his house (stopped only when police arrived and used deadly force)…the golden retriever had its throat ripped out and it died.
one of the 3 just this week:
A family dog has been mauled to death and its owner, a 73-year-old grandfather-of-nine, hospitalized after a savage pitbull attack.
New Jersey man Louis Nell, and his wife Linda, were upstairs in their Absecon home on Saturday morning when they heard their 10-year-old golden retriever, Chrissy, barking frantically.
When Mrs Nell went to investigate she said two crazed pitbulls bolted up the sidewalk and burst through her screen door, into the family living room.
The vicious animals pounced straight on Chrissy, tearing at the beloved dog’s throat.
During the attack, Mrs Nell called the police who arrived at the scene and shot one of the pitbulls dead. The other was taken to animal control.
…
‘They tore her throat completely open. The vet said you could see everything, every part of her anatomy that was in her throat,’ Mrs Nell told NBC News.
Most BSL laws have a grandfather clause - existing “beloved family pets” get to live out their golden years peacefully, unlike the golden retriever in the story above.
900,000 pit bulls are euthanized after withering away in hot steel wire cages in shelters across the USA every year. This is many times more than any that were put to sleep because they were brought into cities with BSL after the grandfather clause.
the overwhelming number of dog owners killed by thier own dogs, are pit bull owners:
Dec 2011, Burnettsville IN; 58 year old Joseph D. Hines killed by his dog. Last of 7 US Pit Bull owners killed by their animals in 2011.
Sep 2011, Philadelphia, PA; 50 year old Carmen Ramos killed by her Pit Bulls
July 2011, South Africa; 21 year old Jason Waverly killed by his own Pit Bulls
July 2011, Spotsylvania County VA; Man killed by his own Pit Bull
July 2011, Sonoma, CA; BADRAP supporter Darla Napora and her unborn baby killed by “Gunner” Gunner is shot by police and his remains are buried with the victim
Aug 2011, Tucson, AZ; 61 year old Michael Cook, mauled by his Pit Bull dies three weeks later
Jan 2011, Colusa, CA; 51 year old Linda Leal killed by her Pit mix
March 2011, San Bernadino, CA, 47 year old Jennie Erquaia killed by her own Pit Bull
Dec 2010, Riverside, CA; two months after being mauled by the family Pit Bull, 67 year old Edward Mitchell succumbs to his injuries
Oct 2010, Williamburg, MO; 84 year old Rev John Reynolds killed by family Pit Bulls. Dogs not seized by authorities
Sep 2010, McMinn County, TN; 85 year old Mattie Daugherty killed by her 9 year old Pit Bull
Jan 2010, Chicago, IL; 57 year old Johnny Wilson killed by family Pits
Do you really want to see info on the pit owners killed by their pets in 2012 and so far in 2013 as well? Hint : the numbers are up.
Police just shot a pit bull today to save a mans life. The person walking the pit bull had it on a leash.
http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/news/1009089-469/nashua-police-shot-kill-pit-bull-that.html
Damn, Cougar, you have a real hardon against pitbulls (and dogs falsely identified as pitbulls. There’s an awful lot of that, you know.) Who do you know that got hurt?
Pit bulls have a hard on for humans. As well as other animals, including horses, Llamas, and other large livestock.
When a person is killed by a pit bull, or a police officer discharges his gun to save a human from a pit bull, there is always an in depth investigation.
2013 is the worse case nightmare for pit bull deniers. In each case, they have both the murdering pit bull, as well as its owner, and/or the remains of the pit bull killed by police.
in each police deadly force case in 2013 ( 3 just this week; one just today), they have the pit bull, and the owner, which in many cases was the person whose life police saved while risking their own (you’ll never read of these cases on any pit bull forum, including the NCRC National Canine Research Council - which was founded by one single pit bull owner)
They are not falsely identified.
Period.
Because they didn’t FedEx the pit bulls pedigree documents to Miss Elizabeth, does not signify they were not pit bulls. It only signifies that Miss E doesn’t have the pedigree doc’s, in each case where even the owner doesn’t contest that they were pit bulls. Not one.
I just want to say, reliable pedigrees are only the start. From there you;d have to identify that there was something in the breed that made them genetically predisposed to be more violent to humans.
There’s nothing to this whole thing, and it’s obvious. All the dog haters have is gory pictures, much like the anti-choice movement. The facts are not on their side, and all the major animal organizations agree, as was shown on the first page or so. But I do think this thread is hilarious.
First and foremost cougar, credit where credit is due: you actually put a little bit of data in your latest explosive diarrhea of posts! Of course you then reverted to argument by anecdote and snark but it shows you do actually have the capacity. Well done.
I’ll ignore the crap and focus on actual data provided. Advocates for one position or another claiming something “seems to” work “fantastic” will be as ignored as the anecdotal news reports.
You’ve accepted by now that breed specific laws do not decrease the total number of bites (although you wobble on this, sometimes saying they do and sometimes admiting they do not) and have zero evidence of reducing the number of dog bite fatalities. We are now dealing with the fact that in some regions breed specific laws have been associated with increases in serious dog bite injuries (those requiring hospitalizations) and with modest decreases in others.
Let’s look at the examples that have shown reductions of some sort.
Toronto: Pit Bull like dogs all neutered and muzzled associated with a reduction of 97 “bites,” 65 of those fewer bites being those previously associated with the targeted breeds. That’s about 25% fewer bites albeit one does have to ask by what mechanism the law decreased bites by 32 in other breeds not targeted. The reduction attributable to targeting the breed was 14%. “Most” to be sure, but breeds not targeted that dropped just out of increased awareness perhaps (that passing any law does) accounted for about a third of the decrease - that’s with those dogs not neutered or muzzled or killed. Huh.
It also left 379 serious bites, 75% of the previous total, extant. How much decrease would there have beeen if all dogs over 40# were required to be neutered and muzzled? To me this study shows that some significant portion of any observed positive effect of any dog law is generic increased awareness and that there is little particularly dangerous about Pits that is not as true for any dog of similar or larger size.
Think for on it for a second - almost all serious bites are caused by larger dogs. Larger dogs make up some fraction of the dog population, maybe 30%? Maybe 1/4th of all larger dogs, including mixed breeds, will be called Pit-like, 6% of all dogs. If that 6% of all dogs, 1/4 of all larger dogs, was exactly as likely to cause serious injury as other larger dogs, no more risky at all, then the serious bite number attributable to Pits should have decreased by 25% … it went down much LESS, 25% was the number gotten to only by virtue of other dogs being better controlled by the generic awareness effect. Percent of large dogs a WAG so to be taken with a grain of salt but the broad prinicple is clearly correct: Pits are no more dangerous than other dogs of similar or larger size.
Salina - of course if you eliminate one breed then bites from that breed will decrease. Amazing that. Any claim that serious bites have decreased however needs to be supported by more than a statement by some advocate. Data! What was the dog bite hospitalization rate before and what after? The lack of its being put up tells us loads.
Prince George’s County, MD: Again the reduction in total bites far exceeded the reduction in Pit Bull bites. Total reduction 234 of which only 25% were Pit-like dogs biting. Again proving that much of the reduction is generic, akin to a placebo effect. Again, of the remaining bites how many would have been reduced by eliminating all dogs of similar size?
Washington, Springfeild. People are scared of Pits and call about them. They don’t call if they are not there. And? No information about bites, serious bites, or fatalities.
Let’s again pause and recap.
Many regions with breed specific laws have found no change in bites, in serious bites, or fatalities. Some have found significant increases in serious bites after passing the laws. Some have found moderate decreases but analyzing the data shows that some of the decrease clearly had nothing to do with targeting a specific breed (significant drops in bite due to other breeds not targeted occurring at the same time) and show nothing other than that eliminating some larger dogs will reduce some serious injuries. And there is little question about that. As I pointed out early in this thread i have three dogs, one old man whippet and two rescue greyhounds. If my whippet went psycho for some reason any adult could kick him across the room and kill him suffereing mild injuries in the process. If one of my greyhounds went postal there would serious injury before the dog was subdued. More so with a Husky, or any other largish dog. Most serious injuries are caused by larger stronger dogs - no offense, but duh. And yes many larger strongish mixed breed dogs will be labelled as “Pits” no matter their heritage. So if you want to make more than that, at apparent best case, 25% reduction in serious bites you really need to eliminate all the other larger breeds too, the ones responsible for the other 75% of serious bites. And that’s if you choose to believe only the studies that show reductions and choose to ignore all the data that shows no or a significantly adverse association.
Are you prepared to argue for that?
If we assume that only the regions that find reductions are true and that all the regions that see no or a negative effect are somehow skewed (like those polls in the last election cycle), how much does preventing each bite cost? Well, “Prince George’s County, MD, spends more than $250,000 annually to enforce its ban on Pit Bulls” and the best case result, 59 Pit Bull bites prevented, a cost of $4237/bite, not serious bite, just bite. As an extreme best possible case, that seems like a lot. I think a county can do more good with a quarter million dollars than very questionably prevent 59 dog bites.
BTW I do support neutering all male dogs that are not being raised by licensed professional breeders or official show dogs.
Looking more at bite rates by breed in Canada - (remember, one Pit Bull related fatality there in 40 years) - this looking a pediatric bites presenting to the Emergency Room over a 4 year period:
Of the times the dog breed was identified the breed responsible for a bite serious enough to cause Emergency Room care was as Rott 28.8%, German Shepherd 15.1%, Husky 6.8%, Collie and Pit Bull both tied at 5.5% with Cocker Spaniels and Dobermans folllowing not far behind.
The one fatality in the study was caused by a Husky.
To quote from the Canadian Safety Council
Nonsense, DSeid’s ER stats suggest that cocker spaniels are responsible for as nearly as many dog owner fatalities. I used to have a cocker spaniel and I’m surprised she never fatally attacked me, especially when I blocked access to the kitchen garbage can.
Besides, we have overwhelming anecdotal evidence that lots and lots of vicious large mixed breed dogs are misidentified as pit bulls, so I wouldn’t trust police department and media reports; they have it in for pit bulls. Just why I’m not sure, they just hate them. They’re haters. 
Nominated for post of the year
Cite please.
cougar,
Out of curiousity, what do you think motivates orgaanizations from that Canadian Safety Council, to various veternarian groups, to the AKC, to Humane Societies, to the Bar Association, etc., to all be such “deniers”? Why did the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP), the American Society of Plastic Surgeons (ASPS), the American Society for Reconstructive Microsurgery (ASRM), and the American Society of Maxillofacial Surgeons (ASMS), the American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA), and the Insurance Information Institute (III) all come together to work to reduce on reducing dog bites and not fixate on eliminating a few breeds but on broader educational goals? Why do all these groups deny that there is a simple fix, just ban a few breeds?
I just went to the American Academy of Pediatrics and used their internal search for “pit bulls” in quotation marks, then selected “most recent” option.
cite:
They have not had a update to their reports on pit bulls since 1996, almost 20 years ago.
And yes, 20 years ago that was their opinion.
50 years ago, everyone thought the Chevy Corvair was a safe family car.
40 years ago, everyone thought the Ford Pinto was a safe family car.
60 years ago, everyone thought cigarettes were not harmful
If you can provide a cite & link for the American Academy of Pediatrics with a date - I would appreciate it
I did find this, which seems to state they both agree pit are the pits:
Pit bulls are more dangerous than other breeds of canines. Supported by studies-
Source(s):
Sacks, Jeffrey J.; Sattin, Richard W.; Bonzo, Sandra E. (1989). “Dog Bite-Related Fatalities from 1979 Through 1988”. Journal of the American Medical Association (American Medical Association) 88 (1): 55–57.
Avner, Jeffrey R.; Baker, M. Douglas (1991). “Dog Bites in Urban Children”. Pediatrics (American Academy of Pediatrics) 88 (1): 55–57.
Sacks, Jeffrey J.; Lockwood, Randall; Hornreicht, Janet; Sattin, Richard W. (1996). “Fatal Dog Attacks, 1989–1994”. Pediatrics (American Academy of Pediatrics) 97 (6): 891–895. PMID 8657532.
and even these are very dated
Educating people will fix pit bulls killing 30 people in 2013?
Sounds like the cop out the NFL players union argued when so many were busted with drugs. And they were college educated. They got their mega $$$ jobs back, with the NFL picking up the tab to educate them that drugs are bad, and drugs kill people. It failed miserably. 35 NFL players arrested this year, 660 total. Seems now they want to be educated about murder being bad, as well. They should form an alliance with the NCRC and Best Friends pit bull rescue. Group rate on education. maybe?
In the USA, 1 in 7 people are illiterate - they can not read this forum. From the pit bull mauling cases I have studied, I strongly suspect it is much more rampant among pit bull owners. Good luck “educating” them.
We need to focus on getting the 15% of our illiterate population to be able to spell “pit bull”, and focus less on training them how to control their land sharks.
Would you like to see a link where both a psychologist and a city mayor noted that pit bull owners have criminal tendencies ? One mayor noted a direct correlation between the time his city banned pit bulls, and a drop in gang related police calls.
Cougar, I gotta give you props. You are one of the most dedicated lunatics to ever find this board. Congratulations on your tenacity in the face of overwhelming disinterest. It takes a special person to enjoy posting grody pictures and out of date information on a board for this long, and you are that person. Pat yourself on the back.
Also, I have an overwhelming urge to add a pitbull to my family now.