Indeed. Better late than never in most cases, but in this case, it doesn’t hold. Still, welcome aboard the bandwagon. Lots of room. Only you and I are on the wagon trying to get Pitt into the Big10.
No worries. I didn’t think you were purposely slighting Pitt. I would not be able to answer to just any school on this topic; So, I can fill in some blanks with Pitt. I’m happy to do so. Pitt’s a school that is never thought of by people when they think of prototypical Big10 universities. They have what they need in spades. Besides, there is some grass on the campus. I saw it once under the melting snow in springtime!
ISU and Iowa were in the same conference (The Missouri Valley! also known today as the Big 8) until Iowa left for the Big10. That was in 1911. ISU joined the Big 8 in 1908, so they had 3 years together and it did not work out. ISU has never been asked to join the Big10, so there is no real history there. But I for one wouldn’t have minded seeing ISU battling Iowa every year.
Amen to that.
I agree. But, as stated upthread by someone, if the TV exposure is what they really want, ND will get an invite before anyone. ND will increase viewership in the NYC area more than Rutgers. I keep hearing rumors that Rutgers and UConn will be the final 2 teams in the ACC.
FSU has better national tv numbers than almost every team in the SEC and the way the tv deal works is that the SEC only gets to add the “new” value brought by the new teams, not renegotiate the whole contract. There’s a great article about it (it is focused on FSU, but is not a “homer” article).
The short of it is that since the SEC doesn’t have (and won’t have for a while) a Network, then they have no way to directly monetize new tv markets like the BIG1X, they are entirely dependent on adding value to their existing 1st/2nd tier tv rights deal.
That’s what I get for listening to talking heads on TV and the radio instead of looking up fact myself.
Come join the B1G, enjoy the fencing teams annual trip to Nebraska.
At least you’re almost guaranteed to be the B1G champion in Crew. (Here’s where someone proves me wrong and notes that Iowa is a nationally ranked Crew program)
I don’t get how ND blew it by not joining the Big 10. Yes, every single Big 10 team makes more money from their TV contract than ND does from NBC. Each Big 10 team made $22 million last year and ND’s contract, while not known exactly, is thought to be at $15 million. As for basketball money, the Big 10 handed out a couple million more per team than the Big East, so it’s not such a big loss there.
All that said, ND is one of only 14 profitable athletic departments in D1. They make more football revenue than every team in the Big 10 except Penn State. They don’t need a conference and they probably won’t join one until they absolutely must. I do believe that day is coming soon, however.
There are a couple reasons ND would join the ACC over the Big 10. One is that the ACC was rumored to have offered Texas and ND the opportunity to join and keep their revenue. I don’t think that’s a good idea because you’ll probably just get the resentment of the Big 12 all over again, but it would allow ND to keep their money.
The other reasons I’ve heard from alumni, and I can’t vouch for the truth of them, are academics and religion. Nebraska immediately became the worst academic school in the Big 10, so their emphasis on that area is seen to have decreased. The religious reasons I’ve heard have something to do with universities doing stem cell research and elective abortions.
This is a much, much bigger part of it than most football fans realize. These decisions are not made by Athletic Directors, but by school Presidents, who must maintain credibility with faculty and alumni. Carnegie classification, public/private, and academic reputation matter a lot.
Notre Dame, UConn, and Rutgers (once they finish explaining that yes, they are a state flagship) would likely pass muster. Pitt and Syracuse likely wouldn’t pass the snob test.
Pitt, one of 62 elected members of the Association of American Universities, has a strong research presence with $642 million in annual research expenditures, ranking among the top 20 universities in the country in terms of total research and development expenditures in science and engineering, 13th in the U.S. in total federal science and engineering research expenditures, and 10th in total federal obligations for science and engineering research and development. Pitt ranked in the top 25 of all universities in the world for the impact and performance of its scientific public publications, including in the top ten for clinical medicine.
Pitt is a major center of biomedical research; in FY 2008, it ranked fifth in the nation in competitive peer-reviewed NIH funding allocations, and the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center ranked 13th among hospitals nationwide by USNews in 2009.
All is not well in Morgantown. Everyone around here today is dejected and worried that we will end up in a MAC style conference and lose what we’ve built over the last 10 years.
I’m still wondering what academic status has to do with forming a sports league where teams compete with each other. So WVU isn’t eligible for the AAU. Fine. We win no awards for that. But, I think that we should be judged on our performance on the football field and why Rutgers gets more consideration is beyond me.
As has been mentioned, it’s all about the footprint. And what it’s really all about is getting on more cable boxes. The Big 10 would love Rutgers because it would open up NYC to their Big 10 Network.
If the Big 10 looks to add 2 more schools, and ND isn’t one of them, I’d guess Missouri would be one for the St. Louis market. Not sure if WVU would get the nod as that 2nd team or not. Maybe not if it’s between them and Rutgers.
ETA: WVU was rejected…for now. I think the Big East has said they’ll hold 'Cuse and Pitt to their contracts and won’t let them out until after 2014.
Because historically, athletic conferences were not simply about sports. At their founding the Ivy League, the Big 10 and all of the rest were also about schools deciding who their peers were. “Peer Institutions” is a very important concept in the academic world. In many ways, it’s a status thing and a prestige-by-association thing. Now, in 2011, money plays a huge role; but the academics that make the decisions are desperately trying to maintain plausible deniability and act as if they really are all about education.
Talking about your win-loss record is like showing up at the country club loudly demanding that they let you in because your money is just as good as theirs. Not in their eyes it isn’t. They are elite institutions, far above petty concerns such as who is better at kicking an inflated pig’s bladder. They want to know if you are their sort of people. (Oh, and how much money you can give them.)
This is disappointing to me as an old-school ACC fan. I think West Virginia is a better fit historically and geographically (Morgantown is a short drive from both Pittsburgh and Blacksburg) than either Syracuse or Connecticut. Athletically, WVU has a much higher profile than Rutgers.
Any two of Penn State, Notre Dame and West Virginia would be the best 15th and 16th school for the ACC, but my first choice would be PSU and WVU. I think West Virginia is currently weaker academically, but has as much potential in that regard as any smallish state land grant school, and ACC membership would help drive up out of state applications, which will drive up its ranking. It makes more sense geographically than ND, and would set up a nice region with Pittsburgh, Penn State, Maryland, Virginia Tech and Virginia (Hey Terps - that group would outnumber the NC schools!), but ND has more fans and money nationwide and would of course be a good add too, even though it makes less sense geographically.
Connecticut and Rutgers are a decent back up plan for the ACC if Penn State is thinking too conservatively, Notre Dame doesn’t drop its fixation on independence (which in a few years will mean playing Navy and getting to decide at best between Troy and Buffalo for their Thanksgiving game), and the SEC doesn’t snap up West Virginia first (I think the recently reported “no” was probably a “not yet,” and WVU is a good fit in the SEC too).
Even if the ACC adds CT and RU instead of two of WVU, PSU and ND, I’d bet long term on the TV money from a conference that covers the entire eastern seaboard over the TV money from a midwest/great plains conference, regardless of the current value of their network contracts or arrangements, especially with the better basketball (which is part of the contract too). I think it’s even money against a PAC 16 with Texas and Oklahoma, or an SEC with Texas access, unless the ACC gets PSU/WVU, PSU/ND or WVU/ND, in which case the ACC possibly has the edge.
I’m hopeful these schools are ready to think long term, not just about what nets them a million or two dollars more or less in 2013.
No current Big Ten team will leave for the ACC (or any other conference) in all this realignment. They haul in way more money.
I don’t think ND would have problems scheduling opponents because they still bring in the cash and offer national exposure. The local sports radio blow hards here in Columbus think the Big Ten should disallow games against ND unless they join the conference. Good luck getting Purdue and MSU on board with that. How many games per year do those teams get on national television?
I agree with both of these points. PSU is not leaving the BIG 10 any time soon. I’ve never even heard this rumor. The Big10 doesn’t lose schools very often. I think they’ve lost a total of one (1) since they’ve been around, and that was the University of Chicago. U of C pulled themselves out, and still maintains academic ties to the conference, just not athletic. The Big10 is a money machine. Unless someone at PSU doesn’t like the travel budget or changing time zones, they aren’t going anywhere.
That’s an interesting note from the talking heads in Columbus. What a joke that would be. Even if the Big 10 could somehow convince all teams to boycott, the schools lining up to fill in ND’s schedule would be around the block. If they were forced to join a conference, they could go to the ACC and keep the Big 10 out of the loop forever. That would make a LOT of people unhappy in the midwest who love to hate ND and could care less what conference, if any, they are in.
What is going on at West Virginia? I’ve read rumors of rejection from both the ACC and SEC. That’s not good if it’s true. They are a rat trying to jump ship from the Big East and are being pushed back on the boat. They will never get into the Big10, so what’s left for them?
I don’t know what the ACC’s plans are, but I hope they are done with the Big East. Pitt-WVU has this thing they call “The Backyard Brawl”, but this rivalry only became important when PSU was no longer around. I have no feelings for WVU in any way and won’t miss them if Pitt no longer has them on the schedule. I wonder what younger Pitt fans feel about this? I think if you are under 40… 35 for sure, you don’t have any real concept of what Pitt/PSU used to be, so maybe missing WVU would kill you.
Supposedly the ACC is waiting on Rutgers and UConn and maybe ND. If/when the Big East completely falls apart at the seams, WVU may very well find itself standing out in the cold. I’m sure the MAC would take them.
Wow… the MAC would be a tough thing for WVU to swallow. I think the MAC has some great football and basketball programs, but the perception of “mid-major” is there forever.
They may have some time, though. If the Big East keeps Pitt and Syracuse for 27 months like they plan on now, a lot can change.