I will only accept this because of the “slice of electorate” proviso. Yes, absolutely, there are people on the more liberal side that have also gotten so tired of being attacked that they are in it for revenge, but they’re a small slice overall. Not negligible but small.
On the right, outside of single issue voters and “hold their nose because I don’t want taxes”, I would say it’s a huge wedge of the pie. They want anyone different (generally anyone not white, cisgender and Christian) eliminated. Gone. Or at least, not allowed to be near them.
Hate holds the right together, but it does taint the actions of some members of the left.
You’re right. My post reads a little too much like a false equivalency, which was not my intent. I do think that a much bigger slice of the right wing thinks this way than the left. And relative slice-sizes aside, it’s a much more terrifying and existential problem among the right than it is among the left, as the right wing is increasingly comfortable with overt calls for violence.
That said, I do think a lot of lefties think this way. I think that for a lot of us, especially younger folks (by which I mean folks my age!) there’s no grounding in political theory, no sense of solution. Politics is entirely a matter of personal morality. Good people vote this way, bad people vote that way. Because the other side is Bad People, all there is to do is destroy them (which again, among the left means excluding from public discourse but among the right often means imprisonment or murder.) Maybe there’s some truth to that, but it’s not a political model that lends itself to constructive solutions.
I’m firmly in the “destroy my enemies” camp, but it’s a matter of survival, not morality. The last few years have convinced me that if the GOP in its current form isn’t defeated, resoundingly and enduringly, they will destroy the United States.
(And yes, I know that’s exactly what they say about us. But they’re wrong, and I’m right. )
Anyone who hasn’t been in a coma for years who claims not to understand why people hate Trump is either a lying troll or a profoundly stupid dumb person.
If the poster was actually the second there, they’d not just post the op and then leave. Only the first one would do that.
Being profoundly stupid is kind of a curse from god, so I’ll try not to blame them for it if that’s the case. But it isn’t here.
And yes, I think that we’d be better off working on fixing problems for the future rather than tit-for-tat revenge, but if Trump’s endless lies about even the 2016 election (much less 2020!) has proven, that they will NOT let the past go. See also “build back better.”
The fact that members of the Trump collective cannot advance an actual political agenda OTHER than culture wars and liberal tears is absolutely tainting the US political world. Platforms are gone, just us vs them. And voters coming into the climate who had 8 years of the Republicans saying nothing but “No” to Obama and then 4 years of Trump (12 YEARS OF THIS) only understanding of national politics is that. It makes me crazy that a 30 year old voter has literally never known anything but NO TO ANYTHING they want - zero positive or arguable political agendas.
Yes, and my 14 year younger half brother, and other people I deal with. I just wanted to reinforce the fact that the Republican anti-agenda has been going on for over a decade. I should also, in fairness (because I don’t want to be part of that slice of hate-only voters) that during the Obama years, Romney and McCain had ideas and agendas (not that I liked, but actual platforms) and it was McConnel and his ilk that were the prominent naysayers.
Trump though, back to the disingenuous D_D, did not, or at least, none other than hate.
I don’t understand the intensity of the hattred for @Dodgy_Dude
I understand posters on the left and the right not liking each other; that’s just business-as-usual for a two-party system. But when @Dodgy_Dude heard “Trump is literally Hitler!” every day of his presidency he was cornfused. Can someone explain - calmly and without exaggeration - exactly/specifically/precisely what @Dodgy_Dude has done to drive his haters into such a frenzy?
“Destroy” in that context means “to denounce so comprehensively that they effectively disappear and are never seen or heard from again.” “Defeat” might be a better word for the left-wing manifestation. To be clear, I think that in many cases that would be a fantastic result. But it is not a constructive result, it is a perspective fixed entirely on defeating the other side and not on actually building anything… Which is entirely Trump’s appeal. He’s all fight, all the time.
Again, I think this is a way bigger deal on the right than it is on the left. But I do think it is a problem of perspective among us lefties and one we should think seriously about.
Yes, some people want a strongman. They are xenophobic, jingoistic zero-summers who believe that everyone not “us” is a “them” to be bullied into submission. They adulate thugs like Trump.
I suspect he meant “the best president I can remember” And then he said “who are you again?” to his visiting daughter, and made a fuss when the nurse came to change his wet gown again.
Agreed. In their minds, of course, they won’t destroy America, they’ll make it a better place: white, Christian, and oriented around the complete embodiment of what they euphemistically call “family values”. Such an America as they envision it will be free of evils like socialism and the quest for equality, gay marriage and LGBT rights, abortion, gun control, and government regulation of anything except social purity and suppression of the “other”.
One thing, however, is objectively clear to anyone with more than half a brain regardless of whether one’s values trend liberal or conservative: the current crop of Republican lunatics are hell-bent on destroying democracy because it’s the only way of achieving their goals, and they are intent on depriving large segments of the population of fundamental civil rights, which is fine with said Republican lunatics because they hate the people they intend to so deprive, based on their race, religion, or sexual orientation. Their inspirational societal model here is more or less Nazi Germany.
Please pardon my snip. I want to emphasize that to me at least, the current crop (MTG, Boebert, etc) have this as their goals, with the support of certain old-guard Republicans (McConnel, Graham) who realize they’ve been losing the war of policy for years and now want to have power AT ALL COSTS to anyone but themselves. They, IMHO, don’t care about anything other than naked power, and don’t care what happens to the nation in the future, beyond that it is theirs to control.
Oh granted, the party in question is rotting from the top down as they cater to the absolute darkest desires of their base. The ones, that as discussed in the thread that spawned this one, had been seething quietly before Trump brought the pustule to the surface.
And since it’s a winning (per my comments on naked power grabs) technique for them, they have and will continue to double, triple or quadruple down until they crush any remnants of democratic norms in securing their own power.
But but … the Dude is a GOP acolyte and Trump bootlicker, so bashing his revered political institution and the orange-hued shitstain he adores is basically bashing him, too. I mean, what more is there to say than that he’s a useless Trump-adoring fuckstick?
)
I just wanted to reinforce the fact that the Republican anti-agenda has been going on for over a decade. I should also, in fairness (because I don’t want to be part of that slice of hate-only voters) that during the Obama years, Romney and McCain had ideas and agendas (not that I liked, but actual platforms) and it was McConnel and his ilk that were the prominent naysayers.