More later but you just might be better served by looking at the Mass. Code rather than a university sexual harassment policy.
The Dean of Students at Clark University is not what I’d call an authority on the Massachusetts criminal code. Here’s a proper citation. Massachusetts General Laws, Chapter 265, Section 22:
Now, sexual assault does not necessarily require penetration, and since rape and sexual assault are often used interchangeably (by the guy you cited, for example) this often confuses people. But you specifically said rape, and there was no rape here.
The police do regularly strip search (and body cavity search) 13 year olds who they suspect are carrying drugs or shoplifting high-end goods. Ethics can sometimes be a hazy concept for a few teens and some of them are still developing empathy and may not have realized how what they did felt to the victim. Therefore, considering the girls ages I think letting the punishment match the crime would be the absolute best way of making them understand just how wrong their actions were.
I may regret this, but do you consider children (who you acknowledge lack empathy and perspective) stripping another and filming it to be the same thing as ‘pissed-off’ adults stripping children, filming it and publishing the film deliberately to intimidate and humiliate them?
You don’t, say, think that this might lead to them being unlikely to trust any police ever, anywhere in the future? Or, indeed, lead to any other trust issues as they grow up? You genuinely think this is an acceptable disciplinary action for 13 year olds? (Apologies if you really do think this, but it’s a fairly extreme position - I can’t help thinking I’m missing something here.)
You support a standard that allows 13 and 14 year old girls to strip an 11 year old boy and post a video online without prosecution?
Nicole,
I think I can come up with a compromise punishment: All the police have to do is have male police officers shake the hands of the girls who did this. Voila! As good as raping them while remaining legal.
Ooh - was that ZPG? Light begins to dawn…
Not really, I doubt the girls come from cultures that would consider them publically shaking hands with strange men to be an immoral or humilating act. If they had come from such a background, they wouldn’t have been stripping an unrelated male for the purpose of sexually humiliating him.
When the stripping, filiming and publishing the film is done as punishment for committing the same on a another person, it strikes me as simple justice. It should not lead to them to being unlikely to trust any police ever anymore than any other type of punishment unless these girls are already sociopaths. Any bad memories they have from this (and hopefully they would have nightmares for a long time) are their own fault and they should be made to live with the consequences of their actions.
This is pretty much exactly what I’d have said were I not watching Thor. It’s the same link I found.
So now it’s back to the Dutchman for a cite for the utterly implausible claim that Canadian law in the past treated undressing someone as rape. It’s most implausible because it’s not true now, and rape and sexual assault statutes have become more inclusive not less - such as including non-penile penetration and rape within marriage.
Naturally. Only women and girls can be victims in Dio’s world - he’s on record as saying that a man who lets himself be beaten up by his partner is probably a sick fuck who enjoys it, or if not, a pussy for letting it happen.
I can too. But part of it comes down to trusting the cops; my daughter was repeatedly assaulted (read: bullying but more extreme) by some neighbourhood kids, and on one occasion beaten up by some other kids - girls - farther away. I was worried that reporting this stuff to the police would make it worse, but they took it very seriously, and it seems to have worked.
But the reason I was uncertain is that it could just have riled them up more. It could have set my daughter up as tell-tale. It could have gone wrong. Reporting was a risk.
Maybe the girls involved have already been referred to social services due to this event and the boy has moved school - which sounds like a good idea in any event. I’m not saying that no reporting is wise, but yeah, it’s understandable.
I don’t think that having people in authority act in exactly the same way those girls did would teach them that such behaviour was a bad thing.
I would rather have been watching Thor, FWIW. Was it any good?
It was fun. Rare to find a movie I take my son to that I don’t nap during. And Natalie Portman is smoking hot.
The 3D sucked though.
Well I don’t know what YOU were doing at that age, but I sure as hell never sexually assaulted anyone when I was a kid. :dubious:
In my experience, there are only three kinds of 10-15 year olds: those who do the bullying, those who get bullied, and those who give the bullied a hard time in hopes of not getting bullied themselves.
Which kind were you, if you didn’t do the bullying ?
Exactly. The reason that this is in the news is because it’s so over the top. It isn’t standard bullying. The girls ought to be expelled from school and the state ought to press charges, mother’s consent or no. I realize that won’t really help the victim at all, but if we’re going to stamp out bullying then just letting them walk away unscathed is not good enough.
Isn’t there a “didn’t get bullied, didn’t bully” group?
Yeah. Also known as “home schooled.”
I think most school districts make arrangements for home-schooled children to have all the extracurricular experiences that they would have in public school. There’s probably some program available to have them bulllied once or twice month.