The problem is that librarians tolerate this, which amazes me - you can’t possibly watch the children well enough to ensure they’re safe at all times, and by tacitly accepting the task of running a day care center, I bet they’re undertaking legal liability.
The solution is easy. If there’s a kid there without parents, call the police and report that the child has been abandoned. Not only is it accurate, but it’s probably keeping the kids safer, since God knows it wouldn’t be tough for someone to hide in the stacks and grab a kid.
Bet you no parent leaves their kid in the library twice if the cops are involved the first time.
It’s lovely to see someone else who’s capable of critical thinking, but why are you bothering? People repeat that crap because they’re stupid. Same reason people buy into “Both major parties are the same” and “Extended warranty? I can’t lose!”
A library is a public building so it’s not that simple. I agree, however, that parents need to set the stage for appropriate public behavior long before the kids are old enough to be at the library unattended or on a field trip with a 1:10 or 15 adult/student ratio. And the teachers need to set the expectations long before they’re standing in the museum. And the library can set a standard of behavior and specific consequences, such as a phone call to parents or a suspension of privledges, when those rules aren’t followed.
Kids are kids, just like they always have been and always will be, which is why they have parents and authority figures to teach them the rules of appropriate behavior and to consistently and fairly enforce those rules. At least that’s how it’s supposed to work. Why is that so damned hard for people, and especially some parents, to figure out? (And yes, I am a parent, and have been for nearly 18 years.)
It depends on the age group we’re talking about. I would expect young kids to test the parents or teachers to see if the rules are consitant. My son did. He got the idea that he could get away with more when others were around. {Because I was indeed a little more lenient in the company of others} When I realzed what he was doing I changed my behavior, had a talk with him, and after being embaressed by being corrected in front of others his behavior changed.
In this case 10 to 12 year old kids should already know how to behave in public and respect the appropriate authority figure.
I agree that teachers in todays “don’t touch” climate need to be trained and cultivate other methods of control. The problem is that these methods must be backed up by their superiors and an enforcement of guidelines. In many cases a hissy fit by the parent brings about an apology rather than a “thems the rules so get used to it”
In my experience, stores are so worried about offending customers that they won’t demand that parents make their child behave. We’ll have to let teachers and Librarians tell us about their experience.
I would guess that in the OP at least part of the problem was kids not being taught to respect the authority of the teacher. If the teacher is ignored by the child when trying to restore order and the teacher isn’t allowed to take the little shit by the arm and escort them back to a seat or something, that seems to be because of changing guidelines and the kids learning that teachers can’t “really” discipline them.
I’ve corrected kids in the store for playing carelessly with exspensive gear and their parents rather than explaining and correcting them simply tell them it’s okay.
Guess what…it’s not okay.
I was in a history museum once. There was this little kid, maybe 3 or 4, running all over the place – and this place had wooden floors; it really echoed. I spoke to the parent about it.
Her response, “We paid to get in here, so she can do whatever she wants.”
The irony is that she didn’t pay for the kid, the kid got in for free.
The only satisfaction I got was thinking about the hell this woman’s going to go through when that kid’s a teenager. Yet years from now, as the woman tries to understand how her daughter got so out of control, it will never cross her mind that it’s her own damn fault.
As an 8 year library vet I can tell you that I just don’t see kids misbehaving like that.
Maybe it’s because we’re so busy that parents don’t leave their kids here while they grocery shop or whatever. And the older kids that come in after school (10-17) are always very well behaved.
Those that aren’t are promptly told to be quiet by an almost six foot tall guy with an unruly goatee (me). I don’t think I’m very intimidating, but I’ve never had to ask again.
A lot of “kids today” rhetoric is “out there.” Basically any bad kid behavior that you see today has been done in the past (if it was technologically feasible, anyways.)
However, there are a few things that are, I think, pseudo or quasi-factual here:
There is a greater degree of absentee parenting these days. In most two-parent homes both parents work. In most single parent homes the parent works.
This leads to many parents in these situations not having the time, or energy to work on the sort of discipline and parenting that parents in ages past did.
I’m not saying it isn’t done, I’m saying solid parenting has fallen by the wayside more these days than in the past, it’s a matter of effort required. There are some great parents out there, that can raise a kid by themselves, work full time, and still make sure they don’t just let the TV or the Playstation act as babysitters. Parents that won’t engage in ‘absentee parenting.’ But that’s damn hard and you have to really respect the parents that make the effort, because a lot of them just give in and don’t try after years of effort and toil.
Parents today are hyperactive when it comes to teachers. I don’t think we need a return of the paddle. But when a teacher has to be afraid of a kid’s parent and is thus unable to impose ANY form of discipline, that’s a problem.
In ages past if a student got suspended or sent home, I do think the parents were more likely to consider it the fault of the student.
Today, I think there are more instances of parents refusing to believe their kid could have done wrong. It must be that damned teacher, out to get them. Well, they’ll fix that by going in and bitching to the school administrator, who often enough has a spine of jell-o born out of the all-encompassing fear of lawsuits and bad press and will kowtow to the parent’s demands. Or maybe it isn’t that this type of thing is more common today, but rather school administrators because of today’s cultural climate are more likely to give in to parental demands.
I had thought they’d be 10 at most. 10 - 12 year olds should know better. and by this time it is a bit late for teachers to teach them how to behave. Count me as whole-hearted supporter of this pitting! Parents too.
Speaking of repeating the same crap… I didn’t think there was anyone left who was saying this. You do understand that a kid with ADHD is given stimulants, right? If not Ritalin, then amphetamine salts?
Stimulants do not always result in the kind of behavior one would expect, especially in kids. I was given Ritalin and amphetamines as a child for ADHD, and by all accounts it turned me into a complete zombie: listless and inactive. Of course, now that I’m an adult and experience the kind of stuff the OP talks about everyday, I’d love to see a lot more zombification of these little asshats. Hell, they should start putting Ritalin in Gerber’s.
I understand that you had that reaction, but it’s not the usual one. I thought people generally understood that when kids get medications for ADHD, it’s not an attempt to dope them into submission. If that were the goal, codeine would work much better.
When I went to high school (graduated in '01, ya’ll don’t make fun) if we acted up in class, our teacher would take us out in the hall and administer “counteractive measures” or “whip your ass with a paddle.”
Even in high school. My ag teacher, Mr. May, would bust your ass with a paddle that he would have you make. Then he would give you a grade on that shit.
Seriously. I went to school in Blue Ridge, TX. Now, since the town has grown about 25%, all of those measures are gone and the town is overrun by ass clown punk kids. And I am saying that being 21! I don’t want to be around there anymore.
We are all glad that we got our asses beat when we deserved it. We may have been too stupid to learn the lesson when it was “smack down time” but we learned not to do it again. Then we understood why and were thankful.
It’s a common belief that ADD drugs are used to dope kids up and turn 'em into little zombies, but it’s simply not true. There are definitely cases in which drugs - stimulants and depressants both - have abnormal affects in children, the opposite of the effect in adults. But that’s not all that common, and if Ritalin did that to a kid with ADD, a responsible doctor should find a more appropriate treatment for him. Ritalin, and other common ADD drugs, works by speeding you up, which helps the underactive inhibitory parts of the brain start working right. It’s commonly thought that ADD results from inactive inhibitory centers, so the parts that are supposed to be saying, “Don’t fidget. Don’t get a drink of water until you finish what you’re doing,” and so forth aren’t working well. So stimulants help achieve proper concentration. Hopefully, that helps resolve behavioral problems in ADD children who have them (lots of kids with ADD don’t act up in class, they just don’t pay attention) but it’s not because it just makes them into little zombies. If that happens, you need a drug change.
Oh Ohhhhhh how I identify with this. good for you for speaking up. Here at the Nashville Zoo some blockhead crosses the line and goes up to the cage near the tigers and yells at the tigers to get a better reaction from the big cats. when told that is* not * allowed patrons get the same response you did. “I paid my 6 dollars etc.” how incredibly fucking lame and selfish. He was told that if he didn’t respect the rules then the zoo attendents would escort him and his group out.
Thats the deal…when you pay you agree to follow the guidelines. It’s not permission to do whatever you want. Dipshits abound.