Pitting the latest antidrug.com ad

[straight_man]

@Marley23

If you look at a great piece of art, it only alters your brain chemically and temporarily, but it can contribute to your perspective. Granted you may be more likely to forget the “insights” you attain while stoned, and they will probably turn out to be dumb, but so what?
<snip>
If all you have to go on are worst-case scenarios - “you’ll become an addict,” “the cops will get you,” “you’ll abuse it and get brain damage” - your argument isn’t very good. There are good reasons not to smoke marijuana and I’ve got my own reasons for not doing it. But you seem unable to apply any finesse in your thinking.

1. So the insights may be forgotten and are probably worthless (alright, “dumb”) anyway, you say. So then… why bother? Lots of things can contribute to your perspective. “So what?” So, in the time you spend getting stoned, you could go to an art museum. You know that will do something for your perspective, and there aren’t so many side effects.

2. We’re talking risks here. People don’t choose to get addicted. They don’t choose to get caught. They choose to take drugs and risk suffering major consequences. I don’t think that’s justifiable for an experience that you yourself are downplaying more and more.

There’s a subtle difference between finesse and fogginess.

[Argent_Towers]

Side effects, side effects, side effects.

Side effects, side effects, side effects.

You keep saying this. In the context of marijuana, what do you mean by it? What are the “side effects” of being stoned? Are you saying that being stoned IS the “side effect?” If so, then being impressed by a painting is then a “side effect” of looking at the painting. And looking at a painting is a “side effect” of going to an art museum.

What do you mean by side effects?!

[irishgirl]

Meh.
eustachian≠fallopian…you are, as your username suggests, three kinds of Tube. Where I come from, a tube is somewhere between an idiot and a dickhead, just so you know.
You haven’t read many of the information leaflets that come with prescription medication, have you? Otherwise you’d never take any kind of medication for fear of “side effects”. Ever.

I’ll test your claim by looking up the listed side effects of some commonly prescribed and OTC medicatons in my British National Formulary, shall I? Look up the words you don’t understand.

S/E:
Tachycardia, anxiety, restlssness, insomnia, rarely hallucinations, rash, urticaria, urinary retention
= Pseudoephedrine hydrochloride, a common ingredient in sinus medication.

Drowsiness, headache, psychomotor impairment, dry mouth, blurred vision,gastro-intestinal disturbance, urinary retention
= Cetirizine Hydrochloride, a common antihistamine.

Constipation, transient bradycardia (followed by tachycardia and palpitations and cardiac arrythmias), urinary urgency and retention, reduced bronchial secretions, dilatation of the pupils with loss of accommodation, photophobia, dry mouth, facial flushing, skin dryness, nausea, vomiting, vertigo, psychomotor impairment
= Hyoscine Butylbromide, a common antispasmodic.

Diarrhoea, liver damage, headache, dizziness, rash, tiredness, acute pancreatitis, bradycardia, AV block (a serious cardia arrythmia), confusion, depression, hallucinations, hypersensitivity reactions (myalgia, fever, arthralgia, anaphylaxis), blood disorders (including agranulocytosis, leucopaenia, pancytopaenia, thrombocytopaenia-which are all potentially lethal) and skin reactions (including erythema multiforme and toxic epidermal necrolysis), interstitial nephritis, alopecia. There have been occasional reports of gynaecomastia and impotence.
=Cimetidine, a commonly prescribed medication to reduce gastric acid secretion.

Admittedly, many of those side effects are rare, but they don’t go in the book unless they have been convincingly linked to the drug in question. I.E. CAUSED BY IT.

Since the drugs I’ve referred to are used to treat: a blocked nose, hayfever, Irritable bowel syndrome and heartburn, hardly life-threatening serious illnesses, and have potentially worse effects than smoking a joint on the sofa, watching a movie and going to bed, you need to get over yourself.

[comrade33]

Regardless, you have not made a good argument for why you must have drugs.

its not a must. i use pot because i hurt after work. i thought i explained that, but nothing seems to get through to you.

Sure, you probably won’t get caught. But is it really worth it? Do you have to deal with your life that way?

life on the lamb is rough, but you get used to it.

Yeah, I know, marajuana isn’t that bad for you

are you sure? you seem to keep changing your mind.

My point, Marley, is that this different perspective or alternate reality is merely a figment of the user’s imagination.

all perception is a figment of (whoever’s) imagination. i wouldn’t expect that anyone that has never had a different view of reality to understand that things really aren’t as they appear (maya), you just percieve them to be that way.

People don’t choose to get addicted.

are we still talking about pot?

[straight_man]

@comrade33

all perception is a figment of (whoever’s) imagination. i wouldn’t expect that anyone that has never had a different view of reality to understand that things really aren’t as they appear (maya), you just percieve them to be that way.
<snip>
are we still talking about pot?

No, some perceptions are the result of input from sensory organs. That isn’t imagination. As such, they have some basis in the physical reality that you end up back in when you’re not high or asleep.

We’re talking about drugs in general, last I checked. Pot is a relatively mild drug; it’s one end of the spectrum. If you want to talk about just pot, you are changing the topic to make your argument more defendable.

irishgirl, I’m not on any of these particular medications that I’m aware of. But I should point out that Pseudoephedrine hydrochloride’s side effects aren’t as bad as pot, assuming that they aren’t permanent. Also, there’s a doctor and a pharmacist right on hand to talk to, should you suffer any side effects.

ArgentTowers should bother to read the link that I provided on long-term effects. And again, are you intentionally changing the topic to just marijuana?

[FinnAgain]

@eustachian≠fallopian

No, some perceptions are the result of input from sensory organs.

All perception is a second order event. There is no such thing as direct perception. Your standard mode of perception is informed by your mindset, by the chemicals at work on your body, and then, very slightly, by actual reality. Your chauvanism against ‘chemical’ alterations of perception is laughable. Being in love is a chemical change, too.

@eustachian≠fallopian

That isn’t imagination. As such, they have some basis in the physical reality that you end up back in when you’re not high or asleep.

If you think you perceive ‘the same’ reality one day to the next, let alone one minute to the next, you’re already tripping. Quite litteraly. You just are unaware of the role your mind takes in creating the world you perceive. And you’re being an uptight asshole again.

@eustachian≠fallopian

We’re talking about drugs in general, last I checked. Pot is a relatively mild drug; it’s one end of the spectrum. If you want to talk about just pot, you are changing the topic to make your argument more defendable.

First, moron, get this through your freakin’ fundie head: Nobody needs to defend their choices to you. You’re just some asshole kid on a message board. Nobody has to defend “I enjoy it and it’s my choice.” That you just don’t fucking get that is sad.

Now, if pot is a ‘relatively minor drug’, what reasons are there for including it in the category of harder drugs, as you seem to be doing? Are you trying to conflate the two or just too lazy to differentiate? Do you look down your nose at coffee drinkers too? Caffine is, in many ways, a worse drug than pot.

@eustachian≠fallopian

irishgirl, I’m not on any of these particular medications that I’m aware of. But I should point out that Pseudoephedrine hydrochloride’s side effects aren’t as bad as pot, assuming that they aren’t permanent.

Mother of mercy you’re so full of shit it must be oozing out your eyes.
Assuming that pot is smoked, its long term side effects are no worse than cigs.
Assuming that it’s baked into food, its side effects are almost nil.

Just what ‘side effects’ do you think it has? And please don’t cite another one of your DARE-esque propaganda sites.

@eustachian≠fallopian

ArgentTowers should bother to read the link that I provided on long-term effects. And again, are you intentionally changing the topic to just marijuana?

Oh my god you’re a fucking moron. Stop it, just fucking stop it and read a book or something you goddamn propaganda spewing fool. Your “cite” was a link to a government agency’s view on pot.. Stop giving us propaganda you dumb fuck.

Your ‘cite’ lists, among other things, mental damage as a long term consequence. Did you read this thread before taking a big ol’ shit in it, schmuck? That’s a lie, a legend, a myth. Johns Hopkins study proved that, and I cited it.

In the end, the only long term effects that pot has that your cite mentions and can prove are the same as tobaco. Woooooo. Scary. Moreover, they’re working purely on the level of scare tactics. Pot causes problems for cells in test tubes, eh? Pure water can act as a mutagen in lab conditions, too. Proves jack shit.

Pot can cause greater risk for heart attacks because it raises blood pressure and you get less oxygen? Shit, good sex does the same.

Next time you want an objective cite, try, ya know, science. Instead of government propaganda. Schmuck.

[Yookeroo]

@eustachian?fallopian

1. So the insights may be forgotten and are probably worthless (alright, “dumb”) anyway, you say. So then… why bother?

Because it’s fun. Because it makes you feel good. Because it relieves some of the pressures of a hard day. Any and all are good enough reasons to do something.

@eustachian?fallopian

Lots of things can contribute to your perspective. “So what?” So, in the time you spend getting stoned, you could go to an art museum. You know that will do something for your perspective, and there aren’t so many side effects.

You can also go to an art museum while stoned. May give a whole different perspective on the works.

@eustachian?fallopian

2. We’re talking risks here. People don’t choose to get addicted. They don’t choose to get caught. They choose to take drugs and risk suffering major consequences.

Depending on the drug, you may be overstating the consequences. In some cases by a lot. But then you do seem to paint with a very large brush. If you really think smoking a joint once in a while carries enormous risk, you really are pretty ignorant. You really need to get past the government propaganda. I recommend Erowid.

[irishgirl]

eustachian≠fallopian in approximately 9 months time I’ll be a qualified doctor myself!

[comrade33]

If you think you perceive ‘the same’ reality one day to the next, let alone one minute to the next, you’re already tripping.

that’s what i had meant to say, when i said that figment of your imagination thing. we are all tripping, its just many of us don’t know it, i didn’t realize it until i tried mushrooms. beautiful, beautiful mushrooms…

[FinnAgain]

@comrade33

that’s what i had meant to say, when i said that figment of your imagination thing. we are all tripping, its just many of us don’t know it, i didn’t realize it until i tried mushrooms. beautiful, beautiful mushrooms…

Yeepers. Ironically enough, our guest is on an absolutism trip, a moral trip, a superiority trip, a control trip… and wants everybody else to either get on his trip or be on a guilt trip. “Stop trying to justify not doing everything I tell you to do!” Meshugenah.

But maybe our young holy-person will lighten the fuck up and stop assuming that his/her/its choices are the only ones possible. (I am not sure if the guest is a he or a she, and I do not want to discount the possibility that it’s an experimental first generation AI that, unfortunately, has got the A part down but isn’t able to quite get the I.)

[Seven]

@Uvula Donor

I’ve got a 16-year-old daughter, and I practice what I preach. It’s not going to take finding a bag of dope in her room to get us to talk, and there’s enough trust between us that if she ever starts getting in over her head at a party she knows she can call me to fetch her without having to worry about me going ballistic on her at the scene.

And that’s the trick with being a parent. The child and parent need to be able to talk.

My 14 daughter told me her friend was interested in trying pot for the first time and they planned on doing it together. My daughter said “if you don’t want me to spend the night there this weekend I understand”

I told her to be careful and if they do try it to not smoke it in public. Also, not to smoke a ton all at once.

I can’t ban her from trying it because she’ll do it anyway and hide it from me. I can’t get mad at her because then she won’t talk to me next time. She’s going to try it like I tried it.

[saoirse]

@TVeblen

Meh. I just can’t get worked up over this one. It’s nowhere near the classic glory of:
(Visual): egg in shell (Voiceover): “This is your brain.”
(Visual): egg splats into frying pan. (Voiceover): “This is your brain on drugs!”

Good times. It was a like mini drivers’ ed movie (“PROM OF DEATH”).

Kids firmly believe they’re immortal. They don’t think it intellectually, but thinking doesn’t feature prominently. They’re bags of raging hormones, arrogance, innocence, hope and insecurity. It’s a horrible–and wonderful–time of life, and one I wouldn’t re-live for the world. It’s a miracle I survived even half of the stupid things I did, all of which seemed entirely within my control at the time.

The ad isn’t great, but at least it leaves a door open for parents to start from their own perspective. And face it: these ads aren’t aimed at kids. I give this one props for at least avoiding overt, scripted idiocies. “Drugs and alchohol will kill you. Not the beer in the fridge. That’s…different.”

Doesn’t register on my outrage meter.

I liked the one where the guy proves that if you used drugs, you destroyed the WTC.
After the Taliban was overthrown, I asked “Is it now our patriotic duty to use heroin?”

[FinnAgain]

Yeah, one of my faves went something like:

“This is Dan. This is the joint that Dan bought. This is the dealer that sold the joint that Dan bought. This is the smuggler that smuggled the pot to the dealer who sold the joint that Dan bought. This is the cartel that uses the smuggler that smuggled the pot to the dealer who sold the joint that Dan bought. And this is the family that was lined up by Dan’s cartel and shot for getting in the way.”

Because, ya know, why talk truth when you can accuse pot smokers of funding terorrism and killing little girls?

[Argent_Towers]

@FinnAgain

Yeah, one of my faves went something like:

“This is Dan. This is the joint that Dan bought. This is the dealer that sold the joint that Dan bought. This is the smuggler that smuggled the pot to the dealer who sold the joint that Dan bought. This is the cartel that uses the smuggler that smuggled the pot to the dealer who sold the joint that Dan bought. And this is the family that was lined up by Dan’s cartel and shot for getting in the way.”

Because, ya know, why talk truth when you can accuse pot smokers of funding terorrism and killing little girls?

Just another reason to buy American-grown. Avoid all those smugglers and terrorists and cartels altogether.

[FinnAgain]

That’s pretty much what I thought. I was living in upstate New York where people grew to put themselves through college and/or make a living. I got to feel all morally suprerior since nobody I was friends with was a damn terrorist supporting pot head;)

[Argent_Towers]

Just think - a devestated American farming industry could revitalize itself were it allowed to grow cannabis. But no, those plants have to be illegal - while each day you hear about new people dropping dead from the latest corporate pharmaceutical.

[FinnAgain]

I agree Agent. Biggest cash crop in America.

Oh, and, just wanted to reiterate that eustacean is a corpse felcher.

[irishgirl]

It is stupidly irresponsible of any organisation to make claims about the dangers of pot, when in reality we know that it’s illegal for cultural reasons (associations with black culture and jazz were what caused it to be outlawed in the first place) , not for any concern about welfare.

I’ve seen a patient with a soon-to-be-lethal brain haemorrhage caused by a speedball (that’s IV cocaine and heroin).

I’ve met many heroin addicted patients… it’s not the heroin that actually harms them, rather the need to pay for their habit and the HIV and Hepatitis C they’re likely to catch from unsafe injecting.

Seen one patient going absolutely beserk while coming down of some particularly dodgy amphetamines.

Seen someone dehydrated after irresponsible MDMA use.

So far, haven’t seen anyone in hospital due to smoking weed.

What I HAVE seen most of is people in hospital because they’ve wrecked their livers, hearts and lungs through alcoholism and tobacco use. Pefectly legal and socially acceptable drug habits.

Plus all the casualties from drunk drivers and bar fights.

Claim that smoking is bad and over indulgence in alcohol is unwise and you’ll get no argument from me. Claim that cannabis is an inherently more dangerous drug and NEEDS to be kept illegal because of that…bollocks.

[irishgirl]

I know this is th pit, but credit where it’s due: FinnAgain-your AI comment was genius.

[FinnAgain]

Awww shucks ma’am.
~shuffles feet~