In this trainwreck of a thread in Great Debates, TGWATY starts out by pretending she/he/it/shit-for-brains "does not understand Holocaust Denial. Of course, a “fellow traveler”, in the wormhood of Chen019 shows up just a touch over 24 hours later with sfb’s “scientific rebuttals” of each and every piece of evidence. Both posters are lying scum. It’s quite obvious that the TGWATY does, in fact, understand Holocaust Denial all too well and its pal, chen, certainly is a case study of that stupidity.
But that’s not whom I pitting here. Everyone trying to educate the OP of that thread and, by extension, its buddy/pal/shitstain chen019, is on a fool’s errand. There comes a point where one is no longer posting information to prevent a feeble mind from getting infected by the trolls’ stupidity, but is going down the wrong, the very wrong, garden path of engaging directly with someone who is not here to learn, not here to witness, but is here to troll. That is what that thread is. It’s naught but trolling. Those two jerks are lapping it up.
I have no illusions that Chen019 can be educated about this. I do, however, wonder about people stumbling on the thread while surfing the net, and I want to help make sure that bullshit isn’t the only information being presented. Troll or not, Chen019 is preaching and trying to recruit, and I want to hinder his efforts.
It’s gone past that point, though, iiandyiiii. Everything that can be said, really, has been said. It’s now just giving more attention to the trolls. Anyone who reads that thread and falls for the trolls’ BS is already pre-disposed to Holocaust Denial, if not, in fact, already a denier.
You could be right, but I’m not sure. Through patient refutation and challenge, I think I’ve pushed a few bigoted posters (at least 2, now banned) to reveal something about their true beliefs. I think that was a positive outcome for the board. So I think there’s always a chance that can happen again, but only with continued engagement. I’m not sure if the negative of “feeding trolls” outweighs that possibility, as well as the possibility of negating bigoted influence to web surfers, even if the chances are very low.
One can (and often does) correct deniers, revisionists and the woo-prone online past the point where it’s obvious such folk and their backers will not listen to facts and reason.
Besides refuting non-facts, such discussions serve to enlighten people on the disreputable tactics such folk use, and allow fact-bearers to keep their skills sharp in shooting down nonsense. And there’s amusement value too.
Guess we should pit Monty for giving the OP and his Holocaust denier buddy more attention by calling attention to them in the title of a pointless thread.
I do agree with iiandyiiii, in any case I do approach this as an education, if not for the denier, to others and myself. I also learned more about history here. That does not however deny that of course Chen is going now to certifiable hate speech territory as he is now on the record of using sources that already were rendered by the courts as makers of hate. Hence my report now made to the mods.
I think others should complain too about the hate speech he is spewing besides the misinformation.
I’ve done my share of debunking conspiracy nonsense (not much with HD as it is not my field)and I also do not do the work to convince the nutter, but rather to show any otherwise neutral party just how intellectually bankrupt their claims are. The HD thread is showing this is spades.
I keep wondering if he’ll continue to be a lying coward and hide behind specious claims of others, or finally grow a spine and show the courage of his convictions.
FWIW Monty I agree with you. I think the thread passed the point of useful education quite some time ago. Clearly others disagree. It causes a twinge of annoyance (regret?) every time I see it, but I no longer click on it. It saddens me that this type of hatred and bigotry exists, but as far as this thread goes, I see no purpose in continuing to feed it.
I realized the instant I read the OP of the GD thread that it was all Horlicks. It’s just a more blatant trotting out of a typical conspiracy theory, to wit, anti-Semitism. In this case, it’s the “Jews didn’t really suffer” nonsense.
One has to take note of the disease to apply the correct medicine.
As mentioned earlier, those two twits aren’t posting to debate, nor to learn; they’re simply trotting out a CT. I’ve long felt (and posted) that all CTs are anti-Semitic. I’m not surprised at all that either or both twits have gone to hate speech. After all, HD itself is hate speech.
I can only speak for myself, but why on earth would you imagine those posting are doing so to educate chen? He’s a Holocaust denier, Nazi apologist, racist (and since I can freely say it here) liar. As I’ve said in probably every Holocaust denial thread, Holocaust deniers know they are lying. I’m certainly not posting there for chen’s benefit. He’s too pathetic of a shit to be worth the bother of pitting, and frankly I’d rather have these Nazi apologists out in the open where everyone can see them for what they are, and like QuickSilver, Holocaust deniers spouting their lies freely and unchallenged is some thing unacceptable to me.
Well apparently that hasn’t happened yet, see Urbanredneck’s post here.
I think everyone is aware chen is a troll, which is why I asked why he bumps the thread about every week posting thoroughly debunked nonsense and lies. I’d love to see him banned for trolling. And as others have said, you’ve given him attention by making this thread; worse you’re giving him the attention trolls are actually looking for: to get a rise out of people. His pathetic attempts at running the IHR playbook and ignoring direct questions about things for which he has no answer for (the Einsatzgruppen, the Jäger Report, Heydrich’s decree that all Jews were to be regarded as partisans and all male Jews between the ages of 15 and 45 were to be shot, the Wannsee Conference, Generalplan Ost, etc) and his feeble attempt to explain away Himmler’s own words certainly aren’t getting a rise out of me.
Surely they would be far less likely to stumble upon it if the thread had minimal replies due to people ignoring the obvious trolls?
Multi-page threads actually entertaining and debating the idea of holocaust denial will attract far more views than a thread where a troll tried and failed to get a bite.
Only there’s no entertaining or debating of Holocaust denial going on there. There is nothing to debate, that the Holocaust occurred isn’t debatable, it’s an incontrovertible fact. What’s going on is showing how thoroughly debunked and frankly laughable the lies Holocaust deniers use are and how colossal the mountain of evidence they try to pretend isn’t there is.
I’m not worried about people stumbling onto a thread as long as there is good refutation of bullshit and bigotry. That’s why we respond – so people stumbling onto such a thread will see that crap ideas are crap.
TGWATY and Chen are Nazis because they are anti-Semites, not the other way around.
They don’t care about the evidence, other than to make up “facts” to disprove the Holocaust occurred.* On one hand, they worship Hitler and the WW2 era Nazis for the Third Reich’s stance on Judaism and non-Whites. On the other, they have to pretend that stance didn’t really play out with the horrors it did. Sadly, not all of the neo-Nazis are very strong on the latter hand.
*This site’s rules prohibit pointing out in forums other than The BBQ Pit that a blatant liar is a blatant liar. The neo-Nazis here, just like other jerks and trolls, obviously know that rule well and count on it. They’re hoping other posters get so frustrated with their nonsense that the other posters violate the rules to the extent that the other posters get banned. That’s what passes for entertainment for them.
