Jeez, can't we just save ourselves some trouble and just Ban Hitler apologists/deniers?

People like GermanicPride pop up like weeds on an otherwise nice lawn. He’s started two threads, one denying that Hitler could have had Jewish roots, and another about how Austrians are Germans or Germans are Austrians and how they all love each other and

I debated on whether to put this here or in the Pit, but I settled on here because maybe discussing whether obstinate denial of reality should be a bannable offense.

IMO, when someone starts along the “Hitler was a misunderstood great man” trail, it’s tome to bring the hammer down. I understand we are fighting ignorance, but Holocaust denial and Hitler adoration aren’t ignorant, they are malignant.

I’m not asking for a lot. I think two “instant bans” are adequate – deny gravity, or the Holocaust, and you’re out.

Maybe I’m just getting tired of the struggle against these… people. They make me despair for the future of humanity.


Oh, come on, how much harm does it do us to allow posters who think gravity’s a lie? After all, gravity’s just a theory and new research and evidence is always being uncovered in support of gravitational revisionism.
I’m with you on the Holocaust thing, though. Fuck that noise.

After all, no one can prove that Intelligent Falling is false; so it’s just as good as that silly nonsense from Newton and Einstein!

I don’t know. I think it serves a useful purpose. Nazi apologists pop their heads out of the ground and they get smacked down. It reminds them that nobody’s buying the line of bullshit.

Ban them and they’ll just feel the board is owned by Jews who are keeping their message from all the people who’d otherwise agree with them.

Agreed. Ban these assholes by fiat and you’re no better than Stormfront and those other shitbag boards. The banner at the top of this forum says “Fighting Ignorance…” Not “Wishing Ignorance Would Just Leave Me The Fuck Alone.”

Fighting is hard, but usually worth it.

Why make martyrs of these assholes?

Wow, rarely do I read such bullshit from someone who isn’t a Holocaust denier. Every single person ever banned from every message board is banned by fiat. The rationales for banning may differ, and both you and I might agree that the SDMB has morally superior rules regarding banning, but in essence the board management decrees “we don’t need this kind of crap around here.” And on a privately owned message board, they have an absolute right to do so.

When they ultimately get banned for breaking too many of the rules (and they always do, it seems), they’ll believe this anyway. I’m just trying to save us time.

I agree, to a point - this kind of crazy isn’t really something you can reason folks out of. But I do think it’s at least somewhat useful to have the occasional reminder that these nuts exist. I would prefer not to ban them until they violate other Board rules.

No, I’m not a Holocaust denier, but you already knew that.

The point I was trying to make is that boards like the one I mentioned will ban a poster for the simple act of disagreeing with that board’s “common wisdom,” which is kind of what you’re advocating here.

And, yes, I realize that this board’s administration can ban anyone they please for any reason they deem fit. So? So can Stormfront. And they do just that. And that’s how you want this board to be run? Someone posted some shit that you personally find distasteful and you want to run to Mommy and have her kick them out of the sandbox for you.

Is that about it?

No, there’s a difference. If they’re simply forbidden to make any posts, they can tell themselves “Most people believe in what I’m saying. That’s why the handful of my enemies are suppressing my message. They’re afraid that if I get the word out, the masses would follow me.”

So let them post away. Let them see that the masses can read their message and our response is ridicule. Sure, they’ll still think they’re right but they won’t be able to kid themselves that other people are out there waiting to follow them. Let them see how alone they are.

It’s not going to make a whit of difference. Being banned isn’t going to educate them, but being allowed to post freely isn’t going to educate them, either. Their entire premise is one of victimhood and persecution, and in their book a ban today means “they fear and oppress me” and a ban not today means “they fear and will oppress me inevitably”.

It’s hard to maintain the self-illusion that people fear you when they’re all pointing at you and laughing.

No, it really isn’t. It’s really easy to convince yourself that the people laughing are just doing so because they can’t actually refute what you say. In fact, I personally think it’s often true.

And if the morals here are better, then, by definition, we would be better than Stormfront. Not that I advocate banning necessarily–they usually reveal their troll status soon enough, which gives us an even greater moral highground. Even Nazi sympathizers hate trolls.

I think self-illusions are far more resilient than you give them credit for.

On the one hand I am against denying someone a place to speak, but on the other hand can’t see giving an extra place to speak to those who have free range to speak without opposition on so many forums online. We know that hate attracts hate, so giving such hate an extra billboard to advertise on can only add to it. These Hitler Youth wannabes already have forums where we are denied a voice. They have their slice of the Freedom Of Speech pie that they will never share, so to speak-what good does it do to offer them a part of our slice? This forum is supposed to be dedicated(in part, at least) to fighting ignorance, but in all the years we have given these Hitler Youth a chance to speak have we ever enlightened any of them? All that ever happens is that they get their message out to a wider group as our responses roll off their backs like water off a duck.

Exactly. As they say, sunlight is the best disinfectant.

And here’s a novel idea - if somebody doesn’t wish to read or participate in the smackdown, don’t open the goddamn thread. It’s easy! Some might even say it’s easier that actually opening the thread!

It is better to prevent infestation then to try to treat it after the fact-no damage is better than little damage. They never change their minds, nobody already on this board ever says “I was unsure about these Nazis until you guys showed me the facts-Thanks!”, and somebody always names the websites where they proliferate giving them free advertising. Someone once said, “We can learn from the wildest of animals, and with enough time and care we can even learn to live with them. The exception is the rabid animal-have pity on it, but isolate it and let it die alone, lest it infects others.”

Actually, he’s banned for cause now.

Not sorry to see him go, but what specific rule did he breaK?