Pitting UltraVires

This misses the point of citizen’s civil asset forfeiture. Sure if you’re arrested your car can be impounded (even if it’s otherwise parked legally). Let’s say you’re not arrested. The car smells like marijuana, but there’s no evidence you’re under the influence, and the citizen’s search does not turn up any marijuana evidence, but because of the smell the car must have been involved with breaking federal law, so the car is “arrested”. Because the car is not a person, it doesn’t have rights to a defense, so it could then be sold or used by the seizing individual.

If you think any of that sounds ridiculous, do some reading on real civil asset forfeiture as practiced by law enforcement agencies.

Sorry, I assumed your citizen’s civil asset forfeiture would follow the arrest.

I think civil asset forfeiture has a more equitable future after one such case was reversed when SCOTUS ruled that the excessive fines clause applies to the states, just a couple years ago.

~Max

Can we do a citizen’s eminent domain?

“I need your property for my own use, here is $5.”

Aren’t some of those “sovereign citizens” loons pulling that stunt already?

You mean the ones that claim private property is illegal and so justify their squatting and calling that house their private property?

Yes. I’m also thinking of the ones like the Moorish Sovereign Citizen movement.

That tracks with the saying, “the death penalty isn’t for the worst criminals, but for the worst lawyers.”

Yeah, and I’m thinking of those Moorish sovereign citizen loons, the ones who file all kinds of paperwork against your property and thus you can’t get credit, etc.

This, more than anything, is what comes to mind when I’m exposed to UV’s “legal theories”.

So, if there’s no fringe on their badge, the cops are not acting as public officials but as private citizens?

I wonder if that would work against Sov Cit bullshit.

“You have no authority over me as an officer of the law!”

“Yes, but right now, I am acting as a civilian.”

“Traveler” or “freeman of the land” across the pond.

Knowing SovCits, claiming to just be acting as a an ordinary citizen might just get a police officer summarily executed. Because that’s what sovereign entities do when confronted by a peer: they wage war. And here, this guy or gal is saying they’re no longer operating under the protection of the United States Declaration of Independence, but are instead now a lone agent, operating to free hold principles of property curtailment without lien. If they aren’t prepared to defend themselves, that’s on them and provides an Absolute, Insolubale, and Irrevocable Eternal defense to murder.

How is that different from how they normally view agents of governments that they normally don’t recognize as having any authority? I’m asking sincerely. I don’t know much about them at all.

Well, you see (and keep in mind I’m making this up as I go along—like a sovereign citizen), an officer of the United States Law attempting to affect an arrest is in the wrong, but because they are mistaken. It’s an Unnatural Infringement that the SovCit has not consented to, and so has no actual force. On the other hand, an ordinary citizen making to affect an arrest by forfeiture without lein actually does have a right to act as such. But for that reason—because they do represent to enforce Natural Law of God—they pose a real threat to the SovCit. Since there will be no court of appeal But God, they (the SovCit) must file immediately, by right of trial by Combat.

Again, in contrast, with a mistaken United States Law Officer, there will be an attempt to create joinder in a court, which can be refused, thus negating the need for trial.

However, I CAN create joinder with you if I have fringe on my badge. This has been specified in the original US Constitution, which is held under lock and key in Ft. Bragg, and supercedes the fake other constitution. Therefore you can be arrested.

That’s an urban legend. The fringe is merely decorative. What matters is shield or Star, and if Star how many points. Only a proprietarily-elected ninth amendment County Sheriff can exercise due joinder empowerment over a sovereign citizen, and even then only under limited circumstances. By Law of the Land of Commons and Commoners, said right and honorable true Shire-Reeves must be designated by a five-pointed star. Four points? Why that’s no star at all. Three? Only a triangle. And six points, Star or no, is right out.

I believe the Shire-Reeves may only display the five pointed star after you have given them the Sign of the Thumb. In this way, Joinder is achieved, unless the Supervisor of Reeves has turned his back on both of you.

(This is reminding me of CalvinBall)

I’m thoroughly enjoying the fictional (as in written by my fellow SDMBers) sovcit “rationale”; however, while this is all in fun, the actual sovcit loons are, in fact, dangerous and some have killed, even committed mass murder. They may look laughable, but they are deadly dangerous. You can read more about them at this SPLC site. Interesting to note is this tidbit:

The roots of the movement are racist and antisemitic. It was founded by William Potter Gale, former member of the John Birch Society. Potter formed a group of antigovernment Christian Identity adherents who mistrusted state and federal officials. They believed that non-white people were not human, and that Jews possessed a satanic plot to take over the world. They identified themselves as Posse Comitatus, which is Latin for “power of the county” and centered around the idea that county sheriffs are the highest governmental authority.

Posse Comitatus is based on the Sheriffs Act of 1887, which allowed sheriffs to form a posse that would assist them in hunting down and arresting criminals. Potter’s posse believed they served under common law (laws based on their interpretation of the Bible), rather than civil law (legitimate laws formed by the American legal system).

And just like CalvinBall, people will play by those made up rules.

Don’t be too surprised in a few years to see your jokes here used “seriously” by a Sov Cit trying to talk his way into jail from a traffic ticket.

Most are laughable. The dangerous ones would be dangerous regardless, and if it weren’t Sov Cit, it would be some other fantasy that motivates them.