You are completely 100% wrong in everything you have said here. The other person has the right of way no mater what you think. And he is not moving because some ass pulled out in front of him.
No I’m not. I’ll concede that I misspoke on the right of way. The other guy has the right of way whether he’s using it or not. But if he’s not using it, how long do you want me to sit there and wait for him to get his act together and move?
Again, I’m NOT talking about racing through the intersection to try to beat him. I’m talking about both of us having a green, the intersection is clear, the other guy isn’t moving, and I clearly have time to make my turn. What’s the problem?
As long as it takes. You are in the wrong by turning in front of him. And you are preventing him from going. You cannot judge when he will move. (and really, I know some people are a little slow off the line, but do you really see people just not moving at all? How often?)
The entire concept of a “Pittsburgh Left” is that you don’t sit there and wait at all. And if you decide that .01 seconds after the light is green is just too long for you to wait, and you misjudge the other driver’s intent and he hits you in the middle of your turn, you will be at fault. So yes, you are completely 100% wrong.
You don’t know what he’s going to do. He could nail the accelerator as you’re beginning your turn, and the resulting collision will be your fault.
This has almost happened to me. I was in a big hurry and punched it when the light changed - the other guy committed to a “Pittsburgh Left” and we can ***thisclose ***to colliding - I had to yank my car to the right at the last second. He looked at me like I was an endangering idiot :rolleyes: (one should never “just punch it,” it is true - but I was doing it within the context of having the right of way)
It’s so common in NJ, that when I’m the opposing car headed straight, I simply wait a second or two to allow the left turn. I’d rather be spared the hassle of a crash, even though it wouldn’t be my fault. What’s worse is when I’m the first car waiting to make a left and the car behind me honks (demanding me to make the quick left turn ahead of the oncoming cars). That’s when I sit there for a few extra seconds.
From the hit count above it seems to clearly be most common in Pittsburgh … I wonder if it is legal there??
As long as it is practiced only in narrow intersections I’d say it is totally safe. You don’t need to gun it…you simply need to move cautiiously as soon as the light turns and be sure the oncoming driver is going to let you do it. If not, you just pull up.
Pittsburgers… have you ever seen or experienced road rage if a left-turner doesn’t do it.
This is definitely at least part of it. It’s not uncommon to find busy, narrow two-lane intersections where a substantial percentage of people want to make a left turn, there is no dedicated left turn lane or left turn arrow, and there’s a solid line of traffic in the oncoming direction. As a result, you can get into situations where exactly one car (two if the drivers are bold, zero if the driver is timid and the oncoming traffic is aggressive) gets through each light change, just as the light turns red, and the rest of the time everyone just sits there. Under the right circumstances, a PL can enable a whole line of cars to get through. (In this circumstance, the driver sitting opposite the potential PL-er at the red light will sometimes flash his lights to indicate that he is expecting the PL.)
Driving as though there are other people on the road means being aware of other traffic, knowing when it is your turn to use the road, and going ahead and going, thus allowing the other guy his chance.
At the intersections in question, are there signs telling you that if you’re turning left you need to yield on green? Here you only have to yield on green in a dedicated left-hand turning lane if a sign tells you to because without such a sign it’s assumed that the light cycles are set up to allow you to turn left while oncoming traffic is stopped.
And many other intersections are set up in such a way that: oncoming traffic flows at a green light while left yields and turns only once it’s clear, then cross traffic flows while everyone else is stopped, then a green arrow for left turns while oncoming and cross traffic are both stopped before the cycle starts all over again.
:dubious: Seriously? I’ve driven all over the US and I have never seen such a situation. Are you sure you don’t mean a green arrow? Everywhere I have seen it is known that when you have a green light, so does the traffic traveling in the oncoming/oposite direction and the left turner MUST yield to the oncoming traffic.
What you said. I’ve only seen “left on green arrow only” signs for left-turn-only lanes, meaning that you are absolutely not permitted to turn left on a solid green (and no green arrow) even if there is no oncoming traffic. I shudder to think of trying to drive under the situation being described.
On reflection, there may be left-turn-only lanes with dedicated signals mounted over them, marked as being for left turns only, but not necessarily using the arrow symbol. I’m hoping that is what’s being described.
Alright, so maybe I’m not talking about a Pittsburgh left. Maybe I’m talking about an Atlanta left, in which I wait, then realize that you’re busy with something else in your car or having a minor stroke or whatever, and I say “Bless your heart, you just sit there as long as you need to, honey. I’m going to go ahead and turn and get out of everybody’s way.”
It’s the same. There’s a relativistic effect that accounts for the perceived difference in the wait time between Atlanta and Pittsburgh.
I’ve made this left turn in front of someone maybe three or four times in my entire life, because if the idiot’s asleep, then he’s preventing me from going. Interestingly the Michigan Compiled Laws would actually be in my favor if the guy decided to wake up an collide with me.
I live in the DC area and I’ve never seen this, although from a post earlier in this thread maybe I’m just missing something or at the wrong intersections. Unless you are talking about the 2-3 cars that keep going through the turn after the green arrow has disappeared. That is very common and is something I do, along with pulling out and turning on red (with 2 cars usually following behind). But I’d consider that “running the light,” not a Pittsburgh left.
Sure, on the rare occasion where the other person just doesn’t go it’s fine. But I really don’t think it happens that often.
I’ve never seen it in the DC area, either.
2 wrongs don’t make a right. Such left turns only intimidate people leading to even more dawdling on green. Overall it only adds to our problems. It is like training slow drivers that they need to get into the left lane when they have a chance by cutting them if they wait until they get near the intersection where they are going to make a left.