Planning a trip to England, Ireland, Scotland - need ideas!

In My Humble Opinion
1

The backstory, in case it helps: a largish group of us are planning to go to England, Scotland and Ireland next summer. Estimating 11 adults, 3 teenagers and 2 preteen kids. We’re figuring we’ll book en masse through a travel agency. We’ll probably want to do some touristy things - witness the changing of the guard, visit the Blarney Stone, walk on Culloden Field, for example - but we also want to see some not-so-touristy things. We figure two weeks is a good length stay, giving us sufficient time to overcome jet lag and get ourselves hopelessly confused a few times without making ourselves nuts.

So far, are we planning well?

Some of us have never been out of the US, although one of us was born and raised in Yorkshire, but she’s been in the US for 30 years and suspects it’s quite different now.

What should we plan to see/do, and can all you world travelers (or European residents) help us plan a nice itinerary?

2

I can give you some ideas about Scotland - probably pretty touristy, though…

In the Aberdeen area, Dunnottar Castle is a must-see. It’s a ruined castle sitting on a rocky promontory surrounded on four of five sides by the North Sea, and the landward side is separated from the mainland by a steep bluff. Absolutely spectacular.

Go to Loch Ness and Urquhart Castle. You can’t go to Scotland and not do this. Visit Urquhart early in the morning, though - the tourist crowds get ridiculous before lunch. Keep an eye out for the RAF - the squadrons at RAF Lossiemouth like to fly their Tornado fighters fast and low up the Loch. Very spectacular (and loud) if you get a flyby.

Visit Glencoe - it’s the most beautiful, green place on Earth. Loch Lomond is also quite lovely.

In Edinburgh, the Bad Ass pub has a very tasty haggis (with neeps and tatties) on the menu. The Royal Mile shops are great for an afternoon spent browsing, and at Edinburgh Castle is pretty cool - you can tour the old royal apartments and see the Crown, Scepter and Sword of State.

That’s about all the really useful info I can throw at 'cha. Have fun on your trip.

3

Some recommendations from someone with kids who has survived traveling with them (and inlaws!)
[ul]
[li]Make sure all kids have ID on them in their pockets or coats incase they get lost.[/li][li]This goes for any stuffed animals or lovey’s they must take with them.[/li][li]These can easily be attached after lamination with one of those zip tie thingies.[/li]
[li]Take any pertaining medicine with you. cold meds you can easily get over there, but if your child is allergic, take a bottle of whatever works best as a comfort measure.[/li][li]Extra memory for the digital camera! Along with CD’s to burn. You can probably burn a cd at any cyber cafe, thereby clearing out your memory drive in the camera.[/li][li]Let all the kids pick one or two things they would like to see. [/ul][/li][ul]
[li]If you plan One Big Day Of Sightseeing, then plan that evening as a Do What You Please. Or the next morning as such. Rushing around like a chicken with your head cut off creates exhausted travelers and blurred memories.[/li][li]Take me.[/li][li]Make sure you check out the Charity ( Thrift) shops, used book stores and antique shops.[/li][li]You can always ship this shit home rather than haul it.[/li][/ul]

Basic Survival Info:

[li]Agree every morning where you will meet up and a backup location if you get lost.[/li][li]If you can afford it, get the older kids a digital camera. This will be a most excellent learning experience for them.[/li][li]Take me with you.[/li][li]A small handheld/credit card size calculator for figuring out the exchange rate. Damn Brits and their pounds.[/li][li]Pack half the clothes and twice the money.[/li][li]Put your name and address inside of every suitcase and carryon.[/li][li]Don’t forget your converters. Crazy brits and their voltage.[/li][li]Find out if/what your health insurance covers in the event you do need to visit the emergency over there ( which, IIRC is called Trauma.)[/li][li]ATM’s are possibly the best way to go and readily available in all major areas.[/li][li]The Loch Ness Monster, apparently, is a scam. the kids would love it forever. ( get me a magnet from there, wouldja? There’s a luv. [/li]
[/list]

I have a map of London sightseeing that I highly recommend…I will have to dig around to find it . Got it at Borders.

by the way: Take me. :smiley:

4

:smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: ;j

5

MapEasy A combination of guidebook and location map in one.

6

Forget the Changing of the Guards. It’s nothing. Seriously, it’s just some guards take the place of others. (Many people muddle it up with the annual Trooping of the Colour.) In fact, forget about Buckingham Palace. It’s got few, if any, redeeming features. A far better option for the palatial experience is Hampton Court.
Other random suggestions…

If you choose to go to Stonehenge, make the detour to visit Salisbury Cathedral as well, which is one of the best (and the tallest) in the country.

Climb a mountain. Snowdon, the highest in Wales (which I notice is missing from your itinerary :stuck_out_tongue: ) is a good option for such a group - not least because there’s a train to the top for those too young (or unfit :wink: ) to tackle the ascent. Incidentally, looking at that site has made me realise your group is big enough to count as a group-visit (ie phone ahead and get a discount), which will also be the case with many other things you choose to do or visit.

Speaking of large groups -
hire a sea-fishing boat for a day. At a guess, probably this would be easiest when in Scotland.

It’s either A&E, or Casualty.

7

It will be a trip you will all enjoy, and gathering information on the SDMB is a good start. Later I’ll try to find some previous threads regarding other inquiries into GB and Ireland travel. Two weeks is probably pushing it (low end) to see England, Scotland and Ireland. If you can provide a bit more information, you can be provided with better information.

How are you planning to travel about? By train (easier, but limiting, especially in Ireland), by bus (or “coach” as they say in England) or cars? If you are driving, remember that you will probably have 4 vehicles and the coordination problems that accompany it. Most drivers probably won’t be used to driving on that side of the road, and you need to bear in mind that except on the Motorways (= freeways), you can expect about half the travel speed as you would in the US. How are you getting from England/Wales/Scotland to Ireland? Ferry with your car or otherwise? (Car rental places charge extra for travel to Ireland or the continent.)

When are you going to be there? How are the teenagers in regards to normal behavior? Are they Game-boy types, or might the enjoy hikes. The whole of the British Isles is packed with footpaths and trails and good means for young ones (and older types) to burn off some energy. Is anyone from the group going to need time away - perhaps mini trips? This can be a good idea even with good friends.

Does anyone in the group have special literary subjects they love? Yorkshire has the home place of the Bronte’s. Anyone with a love for Chaucer and Canterbury Tales? (If you express an interest in Sherlock Holmes, you risk being provided with too much information :wink: )

Thirty years away from Yorkshire isn’t that much. I lived in North Yorkshire (Cleveland actually) 1973-77 and get back every 5 or 6 years . (We’re going this June - yeah!) The vast majority of stuff hasn’t changed. I seriously recommend visiting York.

I’ll post more info later, hopefully tonight. And I’ll be monitoring for ideas as well. Dunnottar Castle sounds grand Kilt-wearin’ man. Thanks.

Planning is just an opportunity to extend the experience. Cheers!

8

I can advise you,

Don’t go to Doncaster, Rotherham, or Scunthorpe, pass straight on through.

Trains are very very expensive, use coaches.

If you end up in Yorkshire, Whitby would be pretty cool for the kids, especially if you look up Bram Stokers Dracula, there’s something of an underground cult, but York would be the obvious place to go, for a convenient destination, history and nightlife, its easy enough to get to.

Look up a few industrial heritage sites, Beamish would be good, but make sure you have some grasp of the subject, makes a big differance to appreciating social history.

Take a look around the Imperial War museum, a real eye opener.

If you can, get to a football(soccer match) not very touristy but if you can get to a local derby match you’ll see an aspect of British character that may surprise.

Don’t bother with the theme parks, you have far better over there.

Make sure you go for a meal of our national dish, curry, at a sit in place, and specifically one that does not do take away meals as these are of a much higher standard of cuisine, also try out a fish and chip carry out, but this can be frought as there are good chip shops and very average ones, I would not recommend having fish and chips anywhere south of Birmingham as they make the batter too doughy and fry too fast.

Chester is an interesting place, worth a call.

9

Whoa! Now I have lots more questions!

First - a coach is the same as a bus? I have no idea how we’re traveling from place to place, but if that’s the recommended option, I’d be in favor of it. Trains are also a possibility. I know very little about getting around, but I would assume some sort of public transportation in city areas, and possibly car rentals in less urban areas? I’m not too worried about the driving on the “wrong” side of the street thing, since I won’t be doing any of the driving.

The teenagers are all female, and they’re punky/goth kids - and there’s four of them, not the three I originally counted (yes, I left my own daughter out :smack: ). By the time we go, three will be sixteen and one will be seventeen. Not outdoorsy gals, they’re iPod/television/computer geeks. All would prefer citified adventures, because they’re really no damn fun. Basically, they wanna meet Graham Norton. We grown-ups plan to drag them to things they don’t particularly want to do, but we intend to be reasonable about it. So - not-too-racy adventures for teenagers would be wonderful. The Bram Stoker thing sounds like it might intrigue them, as would Stonehenge.

Football game would be cool - to the best of my knowledge, having a nice ass is a requirement to play football in England, so I’m all over that idea! Is there general admission, or do you have to pre-purchase tickets?

We have some history buffs, so museums sound good. I’m interested in the Jacobite era, most of the guys are into WWII stuff, and we’re all interested in the Renaissance period. Victorian, not so much, except that the kids think they want to see Whitechapel - I’ve heard it’s not a nice area even now, so I’m thinking maybe not.

We’ll definitely be doing some shopping, and as Shirley Ujest knows well, thrift stores and antique shops are right up my alley. Quick side question - would it be better for us to ship our purchases home ahead of us? I don’t know what customs is like, but a) I don’t want to break any rules, and b) I don’t want to carry a ton of stuff onto a plane.

I forgot about Wales, but when I mentioned it to our Yorkshire lady she said there’s nothing there we need to see. She may be biased, but none of us know enough about Wales to refute this.

I thought curry was Indian food?

What’s a decent round trip plan - England to Ireland to Scotland and back to England? Better to stay in big hotels, or little bed-and-breakfast type places with a group this size?

Thanks for suggestions so far - I will check out links and maps and stuff!

10

I’ve only been to the UK once, but I can tell you what I liked and what I missed. I wanted to see Stonehenge, although I’m told many find it disappointing. My favorite day in London was probably the day we spent at the White Tower. We ended the day by strolling across the bridge there, and having a very formal dinner at a school for chefs and wait staff. We were in jeans and fairly scruffy clothes, but made to feel at home, the meal was waaaay cheaper than it otherwise would have been, and it was just a nice time. I also enjoyed their History Museum, which is arguably the best in the world. I wanted to see Westminster, which is where Isaac Newton rests, but I only glimpsed it during the London marathon.

If they are at all outdoorsy, you can go almost anywhere in Scotland and have a good time. We spent most of a week on Skye, and were never bored.

11

Some off-the-too-touristy-path ideas:

  • Dover. The white cliffs thereof are kinda interesting, but the Secret Wartime Tunnels are fascinating. And I’m not a WWII buff. They’re just really cool.

  • Aberystwyth, in Wales (where else can you find a place with so few vowels?). It’s a good place to catch your breath, and it’s beautiful. Also, I had the best lamb I’ve ever eaten there (probably because it was still grazing in the fields as we drove in. But yuuuuummmm.).

  • If you’re into C.S. Lewis at all, Oxford is neat. The town and the colleges are interesting, the Bodlean library is beautiful, and you can visit Lewis’ house, which has been fully restored (by my theatre prof!). Don’t forget to visit the Bird & Baby pub (er, what’s its real name… oh yeah, the Eagle and Child.) – that’s where Lewis and the rest of the Inklings hung out.

  • As Kilt-Wearin’ Man mentioned, Edinburgh is neat. Edinburgh Castle is AMAZING. We spent 3 or 4 hours there, and could have spent more. Very cool.

  • If anyone is really into Shakespeare, check out his hometown of Stratford-Upon-Avon. His birthplace is not terribly interesting, but his mother’s family home – wow! They have falconry, and a blacksmith, and all sorts of cool stuff. I got to launch an owl when I was there. It’s a little more out of the way, but definitely worth it.

  • We really liked Tintagel, too, in Cornwall. It was surprising to see bright blue water on the coast of England! If any of your party has read some of the Arthurian legends, they’ll appreciate this.

  • Bath is great. It’s so pretty, and they have some pretty interesting things to do: the Roman Baths, the Museum of Costume, Bath Abbey, Pultney Bridge… and if anyone likes Jane Austen, there’s plenty they’ll recognize in Bath.
    General info:

  • a bus, in England, is just for short in-city rides. A coach is for long-distance trips, and the coach drivers apparently get their knickers in a twist if you call their vehicle a bus.

  • get moneybelts. Just the little canvas pouch to wear in your waistline.

  • Pack your bags with everything you think you need. Then gather all your stuff, and walk around the block 3 times. Then you’ll probably unpack and leave stuff out.

  • Get some Rick Steve’s England Thru The Back Door books. He has “routes” for seeing the whole British Isles, based on how much time you have. They’re great – he’s opinionated, so instead of listing every silly attraction and hotel a city has to offer, he’ll tell you his favorites. For instance, he’ll tell you that if you have one day here, see these three things. If you have 2 days, add these, etc. It’s very helpful. (And if you go to Edinburgh, tell me the list of hotels… I can recommend the place we stayed, I just can’t remember the name of it.)

  • we didn’t find the trains that expensive, but this was 1998. The trains are kind of fun to take, just because we don’t take them at home. And it’s some nice downtime, too. Look into BritRail passes if you decide to train it.
    You’ll have so much fun! I’m jealous – we spent 3 months there on a study-abroad trip, and I can’t wait to go back. Maybe it’s time to find a job as a tour guide or something…

12

Yes. A coach is a long-distance bus. A bus is local transport. (‘Coach class’ is an Americanism.)

However, don’t go by coach. It may be cheaper, but it takes faaaaar longer. If you plan your rail journies in advance, you can get the decent-value tickets. Just don’t expect to turn up at 8am on Monday and get a cheap fare!

It’ll be a mix. In London, public transport is all that you need. If you’re going into rural Scotland, car-hire is the only option. Getting from city to city, I stand by trains as the best option, particularly with a large group.

There’s the (very touristy) Jack The Ripper tours in east London. Other than that, I’ll try and think of some things that they might find acceptable…

Summer’s not the season for football, unfortunately. You could go to the cricket, though?! (Seriously, there’s always a few football matches on - ‘friendlies’, ie not part of a competition but a first-team warm-up. The advantage of these is there’s no problem buying tickets on the day.)

For the WW2 guys, there’s the Imperial War Museums - that includes a museum in London, HMS Belfast moored on the Thames, a huge aviation museum near Cambridge, a new one in Manchester (designed by Daniel Libeskind, of the WTC project), etc., etc. There’s a lot to be seen all around east London, much of it almost completely ignored - get a decent history book and follow what takes your interest.

I’d suspect she’s never been there. It can compete with much of Scotland as far as scenery is concerned, and is far easier to get to. And has a better climate, and many huge sandy beaches :slight_smile:

It was. And India was British for a few centuries. Curry is to British cuisine what Mexican is to the USA.

Depends how you want to travel. If it’s by road and ferry (there’s oodles of ships to both Dublin and Belfast), then a circular trip in either direction would make sense. If you want to get to Ireland by plane, you’ll probably need to work other things around that journey in particular.

13

We’re gonna need way more than two weeks. Given that’s all the time we HAVE, though, we’ll do our best. I would never have looked for Secret Wartme Tunnels, and that sounds awesome. Likewise, the very touristy Ripper tour - if it’s very touristy, it’s probably more appropriate for the teenagers than wandering through Whitechapel at night, yes?

Our friend has been to Wales - I just asked her. She agreed that the scenery is lovely, but says we’ll have enough of that in Scotland. I’m insisting on Scotland, because I NEED to see Edinburgh and Culloden. I read Diana Gabaldon :slight_smile: If we are forced to skip anything, it’ll be Ireland.

Ooh, cricket! Is it hard to understand the rules, or could we enjoy it without having to?

India was British. I knew that. :smack: “Do you have a flag?”

14

OK, these threads mention what I love about England and some good spots to visit in Ireland.

Some random thoughts about trip preparation (sorry if you already know some of these):

  • Check your passport expiration date. (All passports - wife, kids. Wait a week and check them again to protect against Gremlins changing dates.)
  • Call your credit card customer service. Let them know when you will be racking up bills in the UK so they don’t cancel the card. Get your PIN and memorize it. Credit cards and ATM cards are a good way to get great exchange rates on cash. Ask if there are foreign currency conversion fees. Even with those, it can still be a good deal. Gold (?) cards allow you to decline extra insurance coverage for car rental. I like taking two cards – one for my wallet, the other I keep in a safe spot with the passports in case the first one is lost. (Others have mentioned a hidden wallet/money carrier.)
  • If you decide to rent cars, I like http://www.kemwel.com or http://www.europcar.co.uk/. I’m probably going with Kemwel this trip.
  • I’m probably going to be flying in to Glasgow and out of Heathrow in order to save some driving. You might want to check into this concept. Some airlines charge extra, some don’t. Manchester is a good spot to fly into as well. Or, think about into Shannon (Ireland) and out of London. The extra cost can be worth the time saved in travel.
  • I like B&Bs. In the US, and B&B is an expensive alternative to a hotel. In the UK they are an inexpensive alternative. There were usually enough about that I never made advance reservations (with a few exceptions). In Edinburgh (which I also highly recommend), there are a lot of B&Bs along Minto Street/Mayfield Gardens. As long as you are not there during the Fringe Festival (early August), there should be rooms available. Granted, you may need to use several places given the size of your party.
  • Get an AA (Automobile Association) map book. I got mine at Barnes & Noble. They are large scale maps showing even minor roads.

In London, I highly recommend the British Museum. They have the Rosetta Stone, Persian Statues, friezes from the Parthenon (much to the annoyance of Greece), scraps of paper that John Lennon wrote songs on, etc.

Have fun!

Phil

15

Another piece of advice that often gets overlooked: tourists can often claim back sales tax on purchases, with the Retail Export Scheme (and at 17.5%, it’s worth the hassle for any large purchase!)

http://campaigns.visitbritain.com/uk/beforeyougo/byg_4.htm

16

If you are planning to take the train a lot, consider a family railcard (@£20) which can pay for itself within one journey (1/3 off adult fares and 50% off for children). It’s good for 2 adults and 4 children under 16. If any of your 16 year olds could pass for younger go for it since they never ask for extra id. I find it worth the money just for one adult and child, and it certainly takes the sting out of the railfares. Otherwise there’s a young persons’ railcard (1/3 off fairs) also £20. That said, it’s possible to get some much cheaper tickets by booking in advance (14 days and 7 days etc) but these are limited. Railcards can be used in conjunction with advance tickets as well. National Rail gives details and has a journey planner. It’s fine for straightforward journeys.

I presume Jack the Ripper is the reason your teens are interested in Whitechapel, but you could combine the Ripper tour with a curry. Brick Lane is well known for its curry houses, but there are plenty of others in the area. You’d be best off asking a LonDoper for specific recommendations.

17

Try and hit Dover Castle, in, er Dover for your Secret Wartime Tunnels. I see you mention it, but I can’t see if someone else recommended it. Link. Went last year, it’s awesome.

casdaves recommendation of Whitby’s sound too. Travel through the North Yorkshire Moors on a Coach to get there, beautiful scenery going on.

18

Some London survival tips from a native.

Firstly buy an A-Z (on sale everywhere - even corner shops). It will stop you getting lost and also cut down your reliance on the tube (the Tube map isn’t to scale and it’s often a lot quicker to walk a few stations than to get on the tube).

While buying your A-Z get a copy of “Time Out” which is a weekly listings magazine with a list of tourist attractions, galleries museums etc. It comes out each Wednesday.

You say your kids are a bit gothy - then they will love Camden Market (main day is sunday - but it’s now a week round event). If you pack them off there you could go to Portobello Market (antiques) which is in Notting Hill. You could have a beer in Madonna’s local - the Cow. (that’s the name of the pub - not a judgement).

If you want the full on Victorian Gothic experience go to Kensal Green cemetary on the first Sunday of the month when they will let you into the catacombs - you’ll think you are in a Hammer film. (details in Time Out)

Also forget about the coach - trains aren’t expensive unless you just turn up. Book in advance and they’re a lot cheaper. Also look into getting either Family and/or Young person’s railcards which get BIG reductions.

Also buy travelcards which work out a lot cheaper than buying individual tube and bus tickets.

Try a ride on the number 10 Bus (it’s the last one that still has Routemaster buses) It’ll set you back a pound. Go on the top deck and look out the window - it covers most of the tourist sites (it’s a real life public transport bus). Alternatively the tourist buses are pretty good.

I would give the Ripper walk a miss - ther’es nothing of the old Whitechapel left. However the London Walk company do many other walks which really are very good - I would strongly recommend at least one of them.

Cricket: In london this is simple. There are two grounds in London. I would Recommend Lords rather than the Oval as it is much prettier and also is in St John’s Wood which is nicer than Vauxhall. Just turn up.

If there’s anything you want to know - please ask.

19

Could you please remind me the best way to get tickets for London shows? I do know that there are ways to buy tickets that are dodgey, but what is the proper, legitimate way to do it?

20

It’s £1.20 on a Bus since January. Zone 1-4 Travelcards £5.20, if you’re going that far out. Seeing as you’re coming next Summer, it’ll probably be about £1.60 and £7 by that time, they’re horrendous at sticking the prices up.

If you do go to Camden, watch out for the endless parade of Tramps, beggars and dealers knocking about there, especially round the station. I can’t do with the place personally, although your kids probably would like it. I find it overrated and full of people with an inflated estimation of how cool and alternative they are. YMMV.