So we’re going to England/Scotland/Ireland + wherever.
We leave this Sunday (6/24) and return on 7/10
We have no plans whatsoever. We want to be free to do whatever strikes us once we get there, and not be tied to a lot of commitments (hotels, etc)
We are going to try to do the B&B thing for lodging… any tips would be welcome.
Other than that, anyone have any advice? Stuff to do or see? Hopefully low-cost stuff? Things to avoid?
If you’re in London, TimeOut is a good source of things to do. I’d certainly recommend a stay in Edinburgh and maybe a day trip or a weekend in Paris or Amsterdam. They’re all very easy to get to from London.
You’re just leaving for the UK - no plans, no advance reservations? Jesus H. Christ, why? It will be very hard to get into many places to stay without advance notice, unless you like sleeping in youth hostels.
But, thankfully because of foot and mouth disease, tourism is off quite a bit.
OK. Cheap things to do in London (assuming that is where you are going…Jeeze)
The British Museum is free, and if you like museums it’s not too bad. You can spend a day there.
The Prime Meridian at Greenwich is a neat thing, if you are into the science aspect. There is a combined ticket you can get that saves you money if you want to visit the Observatory museum and the Naval Museum just a short walk away.
Central London is a breeze to get around. Unlike US cities, Euro cities are incredibly dense. You can take a one-day walking tour and see most all monuments you wish to see. You can start at Hyde Park, near Kensington Palace, and walk down to Buckingham palace, over to Trafalgar Square, then back along the embankment to see Parliament, Big Ben, etc.
Food in the UK is not especially different or good, and it can be extremely expensive and a poor value - especially for breakfast. Go to McDonalds or Burger King. Seriously - you can get a good breakfast for 3 pounds 99 at McDonalds that will keep you going through the day, instead of paying 12 pounds for the “English breakfast” of crappy coffee and tooth-shatteringly hard rolls.
Travelodges can be surprisingly affordable in the UK - I recommend going to http://www.travelodge.co.uk to take a look. In London, stay at the Heathrow Travelodge - for about $80 a night for two people you can get a decent room, take the Hotel Hoppa to Heathrow cheap, get on the Picadilly line and go into London, then spend your day there. Otherwise, if you want to stay in London proper, a decent hotel will run you between $180 to $280 a night. I guess this too depends on your definition of decent…some people don’t mind having a dorm bath or sleeping on sleeping bags on the floor. I sure as hell mind.
In Scotland, ScotRail can take you all through the country, and the trains seem to be cheap and mostly empty. Buy a coach ticket, and then sit in First Class. If you do that, they have a policy to let you “pay on the spot” a minor fee for an upgrade, assuming seats are available, which is a hell of a lot cheaper than buying the first class ticket to start. Using ScotRail, you can easily pop up to Inverness from Edinburgh, and see Loch Ness. If you go to Loch Ness, take the standard city bus that loops around the Loch. It will drop you off at Castle Urqhart (the tourist center there), and return 3 hours later or so the other direction to take you back to Inverness. The tour buses cost way too much, and you aren’t missing anything. I also don’t recommend the boats.
If you have the money, and you have never been, consider a one-day jaunt to Paris. You can get on the EuroStar at Waterloo station in London, I think about $100 a person round trip, and in 3 hours be in Paris. The trains run very often, so it is very possible to take a very early train out, hit a few sights in Paris, and make it back to London by 9:00 PM or so. Think of it as a “tale of two cities” thing.
Anyhow, I’m sure others will have suggestions.
You can book B&Bs online. My mom was shocked I could book her in one across the road from Galway Bay last year. I think she liked it - I can dig up the name when i get home.
Huh? A “full English breakfast” involves toast, sausages, eggs (fried or scrambled), tomatoes, mushrooms and bacon. It sounds to me as if you’ve been fobbed off with a signally inferior product.
A bunch of the major museums have recently announced a return to immemorial tradition by scrapping entry charges. It may well be in effect by now, so (for those who like museums) things are looking up. IIRC, the Victoria and Albert Museum and the Science Museum are both included, but (unfortunately) the Natural History Museum and the Imperial War Museum are still charging. (I think. It’s been a while since I last visited London).
For a visit to Oxford (I normally avoid inciting American tourists to clutter the place up, but I’m sure an exception can be made for genuine VIPs;)), this site can probably tell you more about things than I can. (No, I don’t get out much.)
If that is supposed to be included then I guess it was another case of “let’s fuck over the arrogant, ugly American and show her who’s the boss” that I see soooooo much in Europe. The Basil in Knightsbridge and the Great Northern and John Howard hotels were charging 12 pounds for something which turned out to be what I described above. Think about it…nearly $18 for a poor breakfast, not nearly as good or as filling as the 4 pound McDonald’s value breakfast. Of course, I’m speaking about central London here too, but still…
I did get an excellent breakfast for 10 pounds at the B&B in Kegworth I stayed at a few weeks ago, however. That’s still pretty expensive - the US equivalent breakfast would have been about 5 pounds.
Sorry, but you’re still being ripped off. Even in London you can get a good breakfast for £5, without stepping anywhere near a McDonalds.
Anthracite, you were staying in hotels so you paid hotel prices. Didn’t the menus have prices ?
My local caff – about three doors down – turns out a full English Breakfast for about £4.00. That’s about the going rate – Gary’s probably frequenting posher ‘greasy spoons’ than me. Unless I go for the extra fried slice, etc., etc, etc. which, to my shame, I invariably do.
Opal - Booking Bed and Breakfast accommodation online is my far your best option – very cheap, cheerful and you know where you’re staying that night – if you’re renting a car, farm based B&B is knock-me-over-with-a-feather cheap and a great experience.
Here’s some B&B finding links:
http://www.s-h-systems.co.uk/
http://www.visitus.co.uk/
I much prefer B&B and guesthouse type places to Travelodge type places who are out to make a quick buck off business travelers. They are mostly family run affairs and many will go out of their way to look after inexperienced travelers. If you are vegitarian, just let them know the night before and they will have something appropriate for breakfast.
Well, if you get anywhere near York (and I highly recommend it), drop me an e-mail – I’m living there at the moment and would love to meet y’all. BTW, this also goes for any other BritDopers who may be in the area.
Other than that, here’s my two pence:
No matter what Anthracite says, you should be able to get along fine without reservations at the cheaper end of the market; the male porpentine and I have done it almost everywhere. You might want to consider hostels as well as B&Bs; a lot of them have family rooms, so you won’t have to share, and it’s often very good value for the money.
And go north – it’s cheaper, it’s less glutted with tourists, and there are some gorgeous places. I highly recommend Whitby, Durham, and Berwick. As long as you’re not into serious hiking, the F&M shouldn’t cause too many problems – most of the major tourist spots are open, even if you do have to walk across the disinfectant mat first.
Have a great time, it’s a wonderful country and I’m only hoping I can find some way to stay more permanently.
You might have to try two or three places, but it should be possible to find a decent hotel with a room free on the day. Most big tourist information offices will ring round to find somewhere on your behalf. Avoid the hotels advertised by people handing out flyers on railway stations.
You can find good food at reasonable prices, though it’s more difficult in London than elsewhere. Try the Stock Pot on Panton Street (south side of Leicester Square) or Centrale at Cambridge Circus, which do decent meals for £5-6 per head.
If you buy a Travelcard, it’s probably worth spending a few minutes on the Tube to get out of Central London for dinner. Restaurant prices fall as you move away from the centre.
Indian restaurants generally offer good value for money, as well as a chance to samle the authentic taset of the UK.
Surely they fall into the category of “not especially different or good”? 
What the others said. An English breakfast is a large, cooked meal and should mean that you don’t need any lunch. You should not need to pay more than £5, including coffee and orange juice. The only places I can think of where an English breakfast cost as much as £12 are 4-star hotels.
I’d avoid Heathrow, since it’s miles from central London and the Picadilly line is less than perfectly reliable. But the general principle of looking for a hotel outside the West End is sound. South London should be cheaper than North London, but the transport isn’t as good.
You should certainly be able to get away with paying much less than $180. Even in central London you can find basic but decent B&B accommodation for around £40 per room per night (including English breakfast). Look out for addresses near Victoria Station (esp. Ebury Street) and Paddington Station (esp. Sussex Gardens); there are concentrations of cheap hotels in both those areas, and the areas themselves are perfectly safe and on the edge of central London.
Do be careful doing this. Different train operators have different rules. Mostly the facility described is known as “Weekend First” and is only available on Saturdays and Sundays. Youy could be fined if you try it at other times. Check when you buy your ticket what the rules are.
My main piece of advce would be to try to get out of London, even if it’s only for one or two days. You should be able to hire a car for a weekend for ~ £80 and you can drive from London to the Cotswolds, the Norfolk coast, East Sussex or Kent in little more than an hour.
If you don’t want to hire a car, Oxford is worth a visit and is only about 90 mins by bus and they run every few minutes:
http://www.oxfordbus.co.uk/london.html
I believe there’s a similar service to Cambridge.
TomH mentioned it, but it’s worth stressing that tourist information offices are fantastic places for booking B&Bs on the spur of the moment. Last July I cycled from Land’s End to John O’Groats (well, sort of, but that’s another story) and we would just cycle as far as we felt like, stop in at a tourist info office and ask them to find us something nearby. They always found room for the 4 of us and we only had to go a short distance out of our way once. There was a £3 booking fee but it was well worth it.
First of all, don’t worry too much about the whole B&B thing and not having reservations and we had four people, also don’t expect any posh hotels (compared to american ones) the B&Bs we stayed at had personality instead of being really fancy. There is something to be said for staying in a place that is twice as old as your country. We had reservations for ONE hotel our entire 2.5 week trip (first night in Liverpool) and made it up as we went. Liverpool is a pretty decent town, I love the city center. Edinburgh is a WONDERFUL town… a great castle and good atmosphere, and a nice nightlife ( I can also look up the name of the nice B&B we stayed at if you like, run by a nice old lady). London is also a must, many things to do there. If you wish stay somewhere in London use a booking agency… we got two rooms at a 4 star hotel for a total of 125 a night (my dad refused to pay more and a lot laughted at him when he suggested it). Stirling up in Scotland is also wonderful to see, it has a great castle and a nice town. Also, make sure with the castles you see to take the guided tour, it is very interesting to hear the different histories of the places. Also, Stonehenge was a tad disappointing neat to see, but a bit smaller than I expected. That and we weren’t able to get close because of the whole foot and mouth thing (don’t know if it is still restricting or now), but it is worth seeing if you have time. Also, the key is to NOT have a plan, that way you just go about and see what you want and not feel rushed, and remember you can ALWAYS go back (you will want to anyways). (i.e. I have been back a month and a half, and am planning a trip back over thanksgiving, one for April 1st (Man U and Liverpool game (go MAN U!)), and possibly in may for my cousin’s birthday.) Sorry this is rambly, but am at work and have to type quick and can’t put together thoughtful sentences.
I usually stay in hostels, so I can’t say much about B&B’s, but as for things to do…
In London: My favourite tourist attraction is Westminster Abbey. The place has history seeping out of every stone, and everything there has a story attached to it. Make sure you fork out the extra money for a guided tour - it’s the best £3 I’ve spent in London. You’ll get so much more enjoyment out of the visit and learn about ten times as much.
The Tower of London is also great, although it’s a bit pricey (at least £10 from memory). But the towers are magnificent (the White Tower is beautiful in the sunlight) and the Beefeaters are very entertaining tour guides. And you get to zip past the Crown Jewels on a whizzy little conveyer belt.
The London Eye (an enormous wheel with glass pods large enough for about 20 people to mill around in) on the south bank of the Thames will give you a great view of London, and the trip around lasts about half an hour. I’ve heard it’s quite good at night.
Camden Markets are worth checking out, on every Saturday and Sunday. Colourful people, loads of really cool stuff, loads of junk, and a vibe so tangible you’ll have to have a bath afterwards. Catch the tube to Chalk Farm and walk south through the markets, ending up at Mornington Crescent tube (they close off Camden tube itself at the weekends.) If the weather is good (and at the moment it’s great!), grab some sandwiches and a couple of beers and sit in Regent’s Park or Primrose Hill, both behind Camden.
My favourite museums are the Science Museum and the Museum of London. The latter is like walking through a story, detailing the history of the city from ancient times to today. The British Museum has an unbelievable collection, but it’s not necessarily the most informative place. Pieces seem to be accompanied by a bare minimum of description that don’t really do much to put them into their historical context. But I’d still recommend going.
The Tate Modern is definitely worth visiting, and I loved the National Portrait Gallery (behind the also-worth-a-look National Gallery on Trafalgar Square).
When you’re in central London, make sure you walk everywhere. Don’t take the Tube. Everything is much closer than you’d expect. You can walk around Picadilly Circus, Liecester Square, Trafalgar Square, Whitehall, Parliament/Big Ben and wind up at Westminster Abbey in a couple of hours. (That’s a great introduction to London, by the way.)
Brighton is worth a visit - it’s about an hour and a half by train south of London. It’s got a great feel to it, nice beaches, it’s famous pier, and great pubs/bars/nightlife. Check out The Lanes on a weekend - dozens of back-streets full of funky shops, markets and stalls. Perfect for a day-tip or an overnight stay.
Everyone told me that I’d be disappointed with Stonehenge, but everyone was wrong. It’s beautiful and eerie and impressive and interesting, and everything else it should be. Just don’t expect for it to change your view of the universe and you’ll be fine. Another good candidate for a day-trip from London.
My biggest recommendation is to spend some time in Scotland. Edinburgh is possibly the most beautiful city I’ve ever seen. Spend some time walking along the main drag, Princes Street, with beautiful buildings and shops down one side, and gardens, museums, monuments and the odd Castle down the other. Climb Arthur’s Seat, an ancient volcano with magnificent views. (Don’t worry, it hardly every errupts.) Get drunk on a pub crawl along the Royal Mile, up to the Castle gates (no need to go in, it’s a bit pricey for what you get). Walk around the New Town.
Try to visit the Isle of Skye - I’d recommend renting a car in Glasgow (try http://www.easyrentacar.com) and driving up to Mallaig. The scenery is gorgeous and you will spend the entire trip with your jaw hanging open. (The other islands, such as Harris and Lewis, are also worth visiting, but I doubt you’d have enough time. Skye can be done in three days, including travelling there and back from Glasgow or Edinburgh.)
Don’t pay more than £6 for an English breakfast. And for £6 worth, you should be sweating lard and about to explode. If you have a Scottish breakfast, make sure your coffee cup is full before you try the Black Pudding. You’ll be needing a drink to wash the vileness away about three milliseconds after it touches your tongue and your body screams at you this it is Very Very Wrong.
And don’t forget to Mind the Gap.
Have fun!
Ok a little more info…
Yes we’re both vegetarians.
We’re not planning on spending more than a couple of days in London.
We are considering going to Amsterdam (I’ve never been) or France (I’ve been there before)
I have very (VERY) bad knees and walking any distance at all is extremely painful. Grocery shopping is about my limit.
The only plans we actually have are to stay at a castle in Scotland that is now a hotel but was once our family’s home and still bears our family name. It is amazingly expensive though… they charge by the person! The room they quoted us was £99 per person per night. I’ve never heard of this method of billing. 
Things we are definitely planning on seeing:
The Tower of London (I loved it when I saw it and I know UDD will too)
Canterbury (I remember liking it but not too much else, I’d like to explore more this time)
the Sacred Flame of Brigid at Kildare, Ireland
the highlands (wow isn’t that specific?)
Stonehenge
We want to rent a car… do they let you take a British rental car into Ireland, or does it vary by rental agency?
URL fixed
[Edited by UncleBeer on 06-21-2001 at 11:22 AM]
Ha! I remember them yelling at someone when I was there for pausing to try to take a photo.
I’ll pass on the beer (eeew) but the park sounds nice
I wish I could even with knee braces I’m good for a walk of about 30 minutes max.
Thanks for the tips on which museums are worth a look-see!
YES! We’re planning on spending at LEAST a third of our time in Scotland. Do you think people will get annoyed if I run around screaming “THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!!!”?
We won’t eat lard or black pudding We’re vegetarians.
Any Irish dopers out there have any tips on seeing the emerald isle? Aside from the Brigid thing we really don’t know where to go.
mrs beagledave and I did our honeymoon there…the “bad” news is that you’re going during “high” season I believe (someone correct me if I’m wrong) which means prices and availability of B&Bs and transportation are not as good.
That being said, keep in mind that there are 2 Irelands, Dublin…and the rest (assuming you’re going to the Republic, not the north). I highly recommend the Rough Guide travel books…the one for Ireland is good for spotting stuff off the beaten tracks…and avoiding tourist traps (eg, unless you have time, you really don’t need to see the Blarney Stone imho)
This guy has a nice intro to Irish travel.
A Town & Country Assoc
Besides Dublin, I HIGHLY recommend the west coast…especially Galway and the Dingle Peninsula. I have never been to a more beautiful place in my life than Slea Head peninsula on the Dingle. The Ring of Kerry is more famous…and it’s certainly pretty…but DIngle is better.
Stay away from Killarney…big tourist trap. Remember that Ireland has a VAT…but purchases (not food or lodging though) from foreign travellers are exempt (you have to keep your receipts…and ask for the paper work)
If you can (and you’re venturing into the country) , rent a car…but with just the two of you…rent the smallest car possible…the price of petrol is high (compared to what you’re used to) and the roads are small anyway.
In addition to nice landscape, the true treasure of Ireland is it’s people. To the extent that you can actually meet, mingle, drink and have good craic with them…you will have great memories.
Don’t know how you’re paying for things…but we stuck with Visa and our ATM cards…no travellers checks. You can use your ATM card at most machines in Ireland by now . Yes there is a transaction fee…however the exchange rate (pounds to dollars) that you get via ATMs is pretty close to the bank rate. We would withdraw say 100 pounds at a time…and try to plan our spending so as to have very little Irish money left by the time we left. Do NOT exchange money at the airport…huge markups.
If you have specific questions, I’d be glad to answer as best I could. Feel free to email me
Other quick reminders. Don’t know if you’ve ever been to Europe before…but allow for jet lag…and try to adjust to local time as best you can. Even though we were really tired (and could have gone to bed at 2 in the afternoon), our first night in Limerick we stayed up til 7 or 8pm…with no alcohol that first day or so. Melatonin tablets helped as well with sleep issues.
Make sure to drink plenty of water on the flight.
beagledave covered it pretty well. Galway City is also a big tourist trap, though that doesn’t stop everyone I know from loving it (I’ve never been). The Aran Islands off the coast of County Galway are also very highly recommended.
You’ll probably want to avoid Belfast this time of year (marching season, when things get a bit nuts up there), which is a shame, because it’s really a great city. But the Giant’s Causeway further north in County Antrim should be perfectly safe, and very interesting.
One other thing - when you’re looking for places to eat, don’t ignore the (MANY!) pubs you’ll come across. They often have really, really good meals - I had the best enchilada I’ve ever had in Europe at a pub on the outskirts of Sligo Town last year - at much better prices than you’d get at a “normal” restaurant. (NB This doesn’t apply to central Dublin though, at least where the prices are concerned.)
Yes, I’ve been to Europe once before, but it was 16 years ago. I’ll remember to pack the Melatonin. (I doubt we’ll drink much if any alcohol while we’re there)