Actually, there was one girl in my high school who got breast implants in her Junior year. Yes, that’s right, 11th grade. I think she was 16. At that age, the human body isn’t finished developing. Her breasts probably would have continued growing significantly. But she was impatient, shortsighted, and spoiled. And she looked very unnatural, mainly because she wasn’t even 5’3".
Oh, and one more thing…
I do have a question for Even Sven (try not to take this as an attack, I swear that it’s merely curiosity)…
Under what circumstances would you find plastic surgery acceptable, or even desireable?
Hi Even Sven…There would simply be no reason to get breast implants if breasts were not an important part of a woman’s sexuality. But since when is that new? Some women, The Jerry Springer big boobied girls, often get implants and exploit their sexuality. And usually they maintain that they are happy doing so. But I still see nothing wrong with a woman who has felt deficient in this area and chooses to fix it. I say anything that makes a women feel better about herself as a woman should be fine. Why is it so tragic that society has developed a set of “standards for beauty”? Is this a characteristic that you think humanity should have by now risen above? I could think of a few other human traits that I’d rather we work on, like our propensity for violence just to name one.
It can sometimes be tragic that our physical appearance is so intricately tied to our self esteem and inner life. It is sad too that so often, women especially are judged on their looks and not on their characters. It would also be wonderful if we could somehow find it within ourselves as a society to rise above this kind of thinking. I just don’t believe we’re up to it. I don’t think we ever will be. But I also don’t think it’s fair to judge each other by a set of standards in which most of society will never adhere. Women especially since we were so long repressed in our sexuality. I say anything that helps a woman to feel better about herself sexually should be fine.
Now where can I get a longer pair of legs, boobs I’ve got?
Needs2know
OK, so let’s say you hear me complaining about a problem with a breast implant. Would anyone jump on me & tell me how messed up I was for wanting to alter my body just to please some man or conform to some sick societal ideal? Maybe.
But how would that person feel when I elaborated on my plastic surgery? And explained that my implant was a result of a radical mastectomy? And that being a boob short is a lot worse in this society which values the female form so highly? Yes, purely cosmetic surgery.
No, it’s not about me. Just something that occurred to me last night. As was stated earlier, just something for people to think about.
I used to be of the opinion that plastic surgery was a rather vain, dangerous and expensive thing to have done on your body. I simply that felt that using plastic surgery as a tool to improve your self esteem was self-limiting and merely showed a low self esteem.
Today, I’m not so certain. I recently wrote a term paper for a sociology class about the effects of personal attractiveness on the perceptions of others. In order to write the paper I read a dozen or so studies which attempted to gauge how, and in what ways appearance modifies personal interaction and perception. The conclusions of those studies? Attractiveness makes a very big difference in the way people are initially perceived. People who are more attractive are perceived as smarter, better adjusted, more successful, happier and a host of other positive attributes. Self esteem is not a cut and dried part of your innate makeup. How people interact with you, think of you and treat you makes a huge difference in the development of your self esteem.
I’ll be the first person to agree that we live in an imperfect society. A society which sometimes values appearances above more worthwhile characteristics. Looking at society through the lens of idealism ("I wish it could be this way… ", “Society shouldn’t do that…”) sometimes just isn’t practical to your everyday individual experience. If society can change for the better in a particular area then we should strive to realize it. In American, where concern over appearance is such an ingrained part of our culture, chances are that improvements will come slowly. While actively participating in making that change come the individual must deal with society as it is.
Lastly, an unhealthy obsession with appearance isn’t limited to plastic surgery. It comes in many shapes… bolimia, hours spent daily fretting over your appearance, anorexia, etc. Now a days I have adopted a more moderate stance. If you are a well adjusted person, I really don’t see anything wrong with plastic surgery provided that the procedure is reasonably safe.
As a corrective for a congenital disorder, or reconstructive purposes, I see no problem with plastic surgery.
Fake boobs look fake though. They are not attractive. I put breast augmentation right up there with female circumcision,
But how many of the women getting breast implants so that they can a)please the men in their lives or b)break into porn well-adjusted? How well-adjusted are they if they connect their self-worth to their cup size?
And as for the “reasonably safe”, many plastic surgeons perform things like chemical peels that are not safe. It’s all about the Benjamins, as usual.
Sweet_Lotus:
Is it your contention that all women who get implants must have self-esteem problems?
I guess the question then becomes “reasonably safe according to what measurement?”. I’ve heard some of the health risks purportedly associated with implants. I haven’t heard very much about the adverse affects of chemical peels. Could you please indicate the potentially dangerous aspects of chemical peels?
Just to state something outright that’s been alluded to earlier:
WE have a few different topics here…
-
Reconstructive surgery, breast reduction (for medical reasons), etc. Nobody really argues with these. I mean, your face takes the wrong end of a moving bus, surgery is a good thing. No argument, right?
-
“People know I’m arriving because my nose has already been in the room for five minutes”. Less argument here, but still some debate. Also unclear as to where exactly to draw the line
-
“Damn that woman in the magazine looks nice. I wish I looked like her. Mommy, can I go get platic surgery”…ok, I’m exagerating, but you know what I mean–implants, liposuction, etc.
Personally, I am in full support of the first two, almost entirely opposed to the third. Especially in the area of implants–if women need implants to think their breasts look good (whatevere size), they aren’t talking to me. 
Of course, I also think the makeup and jewelry thing is silly, so at least I’m consistent in my beliefs. Call me a dirty hippie (well, actually, please don’t–I have to deal with enough of them as it is), but that’s just my view.
- It’s not recommended for a woman under 40 to get breast implants. Wait until you don’t need them for something else before you cut 'em up.
- No one under 25 should ever get purely cosmetic surgery. Period.
- Any doctor who performs purely cosmetic surgery on a MINOR should be looked at very closely and maybe lose his license.
OK?
Ummm… Should I say, “purely elective cosmetic surgery”?
You know, I’ll bet there’s a girl somewhere, maybe in an inner city or the Appalacia, purhaps, who is telling themselves that anyone who wears that expensive make-up and gets their hair colored in fancy salons is wasting their money.
I’m equally sure that another girl in that same situation wishes they had the money for make-up and a good hair styling at the local salon.
There’s a chance it might even be the same girl…
Yer pal,
Satan
TIME ELAPSED SINCE I QUIT SMOKING:
Three months, one week, four days, 7 hours, 23 minutes and 4 seconds.
4092 cigarettes not smoked, saving $511.54.
Life saved: 2 weeks, 5 hours, 0 minutes.
Well, I’m not really against it, but I do think it is silly.
In fact, I don’t get the whole cosmetic enhancement thing going on with women at all. Why do they wear make-up, jewelry, uncomfortable clothes, etc. ? Why would they want plastic surgery? Get yourself some comfortable clothes, be clean and hygenic, and go out. If you have no friends, it is almost certainly not purely because of your looks. If you’re a decent person, people will like you (and as an aside, if you’re a women, you can almost certainly get someone to sleep with you if that’s what you’re after).
It never made any sense to me, and I don’t think it ever will. Sit yourself down, and give yourself a talking to. What you look like does not define you. It is a part of you - if you are trying to change that it is most likely because there is something inside you are trying to change.
I can understand even sven - all these emotional problems that young women are having regarding their appearances might go away if it was less mainstream for women to constantly be looking for ways to enhance their appearance in some way or another. It stinks of decadence and vanity to me, but I’m no one to judge. My own personal desires would, however, keep me from choosing someone who uses plastic surgery for cosmetics as a partner.
PeeQueue
> I put breast augmentation right up there with female circumcision,
Really? How many women really want the latter?
In my humble opinion…
Cosmetic Surgery for “necessary” works such as breast reductions for the overly large breasts, birthmarks covering half the face, distorted noses etc is fine by me, there is no problem with trying to reconstruct the body so it will look “normal”. Fixing birth defects and other major problems caused by accidents is also good as the patient may go through so much grief from teasing and staring etc.
BUT cosmetic surgery for vanity reasons, I believe, is a testament to the person’s self esteem and personality. I dont understand how anyone can say its not a problm with Self Esteem? If they were happy with their bodies and loved themselves for who they are, then why bother going through potentially life threatening surgery (anything under general anesthetic is considered dangerous), paying thousands of dollars and go through the risk of it going wrong.
Anyone who goes through with all those risks have obviously low self esteem or are extremely vain and in my book goes hand in hand with Eating disorders, where people go to extreme to change their physical appearence.
Pixie-
One could take your sentiment of “I dont understand how anyone can say its not a problm with Self Esteem? If they were happy with their bodies and loved themselves for who they are, then why bother going through potentially life threatening surgery…” and substitute rigorous exercise or spartan diets undertaken to remain fit and look good. If the people who spend an hour or two at the gym every night were happy with their bodies and loved themselves…(discounting those who do it solely for health reasons and care not a fig if they end up looking any better/different…a small minority I would guess). Couldn’t one say the same thing for those whom you condone having cosmetic surgery - those with birthmarks, misshapen facial features and the like? If they were well adjusted and loved themselves…you get the point.
Secondly, accepting your assertion that those who undergo cosmetic surgery have problems with their self esteem…so what? The OP asked “why should anyone care…why the self-righteousness?” What is so wrong with changing via surgical means a physical feature one is unhappy about? If it makes someone happy and it doesn’t hurt anyone else, why pass judgement on them?
Jake
The only thing I’m against is when a woman gets a boob job, wears something tight or revealing, and then is offended when I don’t look them in the eye during conversation. I’ve seen bad boob jobs but most of the ones I’ve seen are at least OK. I’ve never felt any fake ones so I don’t know about that but expect that, even if they aren’t as nice as real, they’re still nice.
I usually prefer athletic builds and tit size is not very important to me. I think large breast draw attention away from a nice face or other body parts. I would rather women spent time and money taking care of their skin and hair, but I don’t have a problem with surgery.
For long term relationships it’s personality that is the most important thing. For medium term - similar interests and sexual needs. For a glance on the street - big tits will do. If what you desire is to be looked at by every male who passes, then I say go get a boob job.
OK, now as far as why you desire that and if it’s unhealthy, I have to say yeah it’s probably unhealthy and that’s probably a result of some problems with our society. BUT, if this genuinely satisfies your need and you don’t have to keep going back for more and more drastic surgeries, then I say go for it. Satisfy your need. But don’t complain when I stare.
I met the Minneapolis Triplets the other night and they did me the honor of lining up and proving to me that one of them got a better job than the other two. A more symetrical and evenly hung pair of tits than I have ever seen before. I said, “Well, I have to admit that upon close examination hers are more symmetrical, but you’re all gorgeous.” After some discussion of the local nightclub scene and where they could go to find a busier place on a thursday night, they each kissed me several times leaving lipstick all over my face. I didn’t do anything to deserve this except to bump into one of them on the stairwell leading to the bathrooms at a local nightclub (not a strip club they work at the strip club about a mile away, but I haven’t been there and have no plans to go in the future). They seemed very happy, but they were discussing going back to surgery to adjust the 2 who weren’t as happy with themselves. THese girls were gorgeous BEFORE they had surgery. They did it to increase their income. They look at their bodies as material assets and I think that it was my laughing at their jokes and making an effort to keep track of which of the three was which that made them single me out for kisses. Though I didn’t spend much time looking in their eyes, I still made the effort to identify them as people, 3 separate people. I can obectify (sp?) your body and still consider you a person.
Well I’m babbling and it’s only 1PM. Either it’s been a long week or the triplets scrambled my brains more than I’d want to admit. BTW, they seemed very nice and fairly intelligent, I recommended that they take up a martial art as a deterrent to creeps in parking lots. They said I was the first man who hadn’t suggested a bodyguard and then offered to be the bodyguard. Then they asked if I was going to say I taught martial arts. lol I don’t. But I think the fact that they thought of it shows that they are alert to the dangers they are inviting and smart enough to identify potential problems. More babbling, I need a beer.
What you’re neglecting, of course, is that vanity is very rarely the motivation in a breast reduction. Try strapping two large honeydews to your chest sometime and walk around like that for a few days. After a while, it really does a number on the back. The vast majority of women who have breast reduction surgery do so to get rid of those problems. For more information, check this out.
And then TampaFlyer says this regarding female circumcision.
More than you’d think. Check out a few of these links.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/fem_cirm.htm
http://www.vanderbilt.edu/AnS/philosophy/Students/FordPJ/AESTHET.HTM
As you can see, especially from the second link, in those cultures, women who are not circumcised are considered to be ugly. They have something wrong with them if they are not circumcised.
Just like how women in this culture who do not look like the models in magazines or the actresses in Hollywood feel as if they have something wrong with them unless they get plastic surgery, eh? It’s all a cultural thing. The comparison might be a little harsh, sure, but it’s more valid than you’d think. It’s not like every little girl who gets circumcised goes in there kicking and screaming.
I think some of the things women do to make themselves look younger and sexier are pretty damn scary–botulism toxin in your forehead to get rid of wrinkles? Putting unnecessary man-made objects permanently in your body? Sucking fat, blood and other things out of your body with a vacuum?
I’m 36 years old. I’ve never worn makeup, don’t own any, wouldn’t know what to do with it. No one seems to have noticed. I don’t understand why women want to look different than they do naturally. And I certainly don’t understand why they would mutilate themselves to achieve that. But it’s their bodies and they can do whatever they want with them. I just think it’s sad (this of course does not include reconstructive surgery and surgery to relieve certain physical conditions).
This subject is very personal to me–my mother-in-law was killed by liposuction! She never had the chance to see her son get married. She’ll never she her granddaughters grow up. She was a beautiful woman. All of her friends were getting liposuction–who the hell wants to look like a grandma after all. She didn’t tell her children, knowing that her doctor daughter and doctor son-in-law would try to talk her out of it. A blood clot cut off oxygen to her brain. We stood by the bed while they disconnected her from the respirator. I will never had cosmetic elective surgery. Never.