Please place all SDMB subscription complaints in this thread, you cheapskates!

[Geobabe]

@LilShieste

I’m not explicitly trying to be a jackass here, but… they’re not exactly “asking,” are they? It’s more of a “if you don’t subscribe, you don’t post.”

Yes, they’re asking. True, you will lose the ability to post on this board if you don’t pay, but nobody is going to come to your house and forcibly take the five bucks from you. It is entirely optional.

This reminded me of something else I was going to mention earlier… This plan probably won’t make some people submit some of their “content” to an actual publisher (sorry, Geobabe, just using your comment as an example), but it certainly will make some go to another board.

Lots of things have made members go elsewhere. They got in a fight with a mod or another member, somebody they liked got banned and they left in protest, they got fed up with the slowness, they decided they liked it better somewhere else. The board has survived all that, and I think it will survive this.

[Revtim]

@World Eater

Hey you’re a good guy and you’ve been around a long time, we intend to keep you here. If it comes to that, I have some change under my bed, let me know.

That’s extremely kind of you, WE, but I’ll be able to scrounge the five bucks. Thank you much anyway, that was very thoughtful of you.

[Diane]

I am totally in awe at some of the comments here.

I am 100 percent sincere when I say this - If you are so poor that you cannot spare FIVE. FREAKIN’. DOLLARS. maybe it would be a good idea to push yourself away from the keyboard and get a second (or first) job, eh?

[LilShieste]

@Geobabe

The board has survived all that, and I think it will survive this.

I certainly am not wanting the board to die off, so I hope you’re correct. I just think the hit is going to be a little harder than most people are bracing for.
If it turns out that I’m wrong, I will certainly apologize for being one of the Chicken Littles during this whole ordeal.

@Geobabe

Yes, they’re asking. True, you will lose the ability to post on this board if you don’t pay, but nobody is going to come to your house and forcibly take the five bucks from you. It is entirely optional.

I understand what you mean by this, but when it’s worded as such (i.e. them asking) it makes it sound like one of those “required donation” thingies. That’s what I associate it with, anyway.

@blasphmer

And good luck if 7000 people do pay 'cuz he doesn’t sound too optimistic about infrastructure upgrades this milllenium.

I dunno, Ed sounded like he was pretty sure about “upgrading the system” to me, he was just kinda reserved on how much it would affect load-times, etc.

@Aminal

I think for a lot of people it is not a matter of the 5 bucks, but that they are charging for it at all that gets their goat.

This is precisely what is getting my goat. Someone had mentioned (I believe in the other Pit thread re: this issue) how MMORPGs charge a monthly fee (of around $10 or so), so $5 a year is nothing. Very true… Except, that when I played EQ, and paid my $10/mo., there wasn’t a chance that another MMORPG could offer the same atmosphere, and features, as EQ, for free. A Message Board is 99% made up of its members- not the hardware and software that runs it. So when members start dropping off the roster, it can have a pretty big effect on the way that message board functions (especially one like the SDMB).

Maybe it’s just my dominant pessimism trait, but I’m focusing more on who all will be leaving, than who all will be staying.

LilShieste

[Diane]

I think for a lot of people it is not a matter of the 5 bucks, but that they are charging for it at all that gets their goat.

People who want something for nothing gets my goat.

Seriously, why does it bother people? I don’t go to the movies and expect to get in free. I don’t expect to get a free lift pass at the ski resports. It’s nice to go see a free concert in the park but I certainly don’t expect to get in free to see a headliner band.

Man, as much as I like most of you, you’re starting to sound like a bunch of whining cheapskates! Go dig some cash outa your couch or find a free board. Bitching about it isn’t going to change a damn thing.

[Diane]

@LilShieste

I just think the hit is going to be a little harder than most people are bracing for.

If it turns out that I’m wrong, I will certainly apologize for being one of the Chicken Littles during this whole ordeal.

Back when we were a small group on AOL - how many of us were there, less than 100? 50? not very many - and heard rumors of moving to the net, there were gloomy predictions that the membership would decrease to nothing. That people wouldn’t like the new format or wouldn’t be able to access the website. That the board wouldn’t last more than a month or two.

Look at us now.

[Revtim]

@Diane

If you are so poor that you cannot spare FIVE. FREAKIN’. DOLLARS. maybe it would be a good idea to push yourself away from the keyboard and get a second (or first) job, eh?

I think somebody already mentioned that often people use the internet to search for work. I was software engineer when I was laid off. I must use the internet and my computer for my job search.

And I have two part-time jobs. Guess what? They don’t pay a fuck of a lot. My feet are so sore right now from those crappy jobs that I can barely walk to the bathroom right now.

Open up a newspaper one of these days, and you might learn some things, like there’s a lot of people like me who find 5 bucks a significant amount, but still need to use the internet.

I’m not saying they have to give access for free, but this “push yourself away from the keyboard and get a second (or first) job” is really fucking ignorant.

[furt]

@Diane

I am 100 percent sincere when I say this - If you are so poor that you cannot spare FIVE. FREAKIN’. DOLLARS. maybe it would be a good idea to push yourself away from the keyboard and get a second (or first) job, eh?

I once introduced the SDMB to a third-worlder who posted from a Library.

[Fenris]

@Diane

I am totally in awe at some of the comments here.

I am 100 percent sincere when I say this - If you are so poor that you cannot spare FIVE. FREAKIN’. DOLLARS. maybe it would be a good idea to push yourself away from the keyboard and get a second (or first) job, eh?

I’m pretty surprised to hear you say something like this Diane: I dunno about you but I’ve been in straits where $5.00 was the difference between eating and not for a few days but still had a half hour between jobs and classes to go to the library and go read a book (they didn’t have computers in libraries back then, but it’s exactly the same principle)

$5 is 1/3d tank of gas to get to more job interviews or back and forth from your job.

$5 is a loaf of bread, a small jar of peanut butter, 10 ramen packets, a quart of milk, a small bag of frozen peas and a can or two of tuna fish.

$5 is a decent and only slightly used pair of shoes from Goodwill or the Salvation army.

$5 is the cost of going to a copier place and getting 15 copies your resume done up nicely.

$5 is a present for your kid/girlfriend/parents on their birthday.

Maybe you’ve never been that down and out: if so, you’re lucky. But having been in that situation myself for a (mercifully short) period of time, I think that statement was, at best, ill-considered and out of character for you.

Fenris

[Diane]

@Revtim

I’m not saying they have to give access for free, but this “push yourself away from the keyboard and get a second (or first) job” is really fucking ignorant.

Maybe I could have worded it better and I apologize.

I don’t mean to sound cold, but if a person is so broke that they cannot come up with a measly $5 for entertainment purposes, then maybe they need to find entertainment they can afford.

If the SDMB is important enough, then I am almost certain it wouldn’t be that hard to take an hour or two away from the SDMB and earn the $5. Hell, I pay 4 times that amount to have my yard mowed. I earned 10 times that amount selling old clothes on eBay.

All I am saying is, if it is really that important to you, stop whining and do something constructive.

[wonky]

This is just to repeat something that came up earlier in the thread.

If it’s the money, please ask. Some of us would be delighted to help.

Of course, if it’s the principle of the thing, this doesn’t work. So ignore this post, you principled people you!

Julie

[Diane]

Fenris - I don’t mean to sound so coldhearted, really, but I HAVE been in that situation. I am a single mother with 3 kids. It was TOUGH in the beginning, but - and I hope this doesn’t sound overly dramatic - <b>I worked my ass off whenever there was something I wanted. </B>

I wanted to buy a house - I went back to school, busted ass, and found a job that allowed me to move up the ladder and make good enough bucks to start saving and eventually qualify for a mortgage.

I wanted a certain car - I worked overtime and saved up enough money to pay for it with cash.

I wanted to show my kids the world - I worked more overtime, saved and saved for two years, then took my kids traveling through Europe for 5 weeks.

I wanted new furniture - I worked extra hours.

I wanted all new windows in my house - I worked Saturdays and stop buying things that aren’t necessary, like candybars and pop.

I take my family on a major vacation every year - I have a savings account set aside for just that purpose. My kids earn their own spending money.

I am remodeling my kitchen - I started selling on eBay to help fund that :::cough::: little :::cough::: project that is currently making me nuts.

Except for the house, I have not paid for any of it with credit or loans.

I have mentioned it many times before that I work with the homeless. I have heard every excuse in the book when it comes to why a person should not have to work for something they want. Some are legit (like mental illness), most are not.

So again, as cold as it sounds, as a single mother of 3 in a one income household, I have a very hard time understanding why a person is unable, or UNWILLING, to make an effort to earn $5.00 for something that is that important to them and instead makes excuse after excuse as to why they can’t.

[Revtim]

@Diane

If the SDMB is important enough, then I am almost certain it wouldn’t be that hard to take an hour or two away from the SDMB and earn the $5.

I guess you missed the part about working two jobs, huh? Some people ARE taking a fuck of lot more than “an hour or two” from the SDMB but are still barely getting by.

You seem to be very sure that everybody having money problems aren’t already doing all they can. Try and expand your mind to understand that many are indeed doing all they can, but still find 5 bucks precious.

And since I suspect I will need to repeat this point, I’m not saying the board has to be free forever. I just want you to understand that your attitude that people just need to try a little harder shows that you are ignorant of the fact that many indeed are doing all they can. If you hadn’t heard already, the US economy has shitty for several years now, and many many jobs lost.

[pepperlandgirl]

Is the comparison to magazines, movies, and tv valid though? In all those instances, you are paying to enjoy somebody else’s hard work. I’m paying for Entertainment Weekly so they can write the articles and bring the information to me. I’m paying to go to movies so I can sit in a dark theater for a few hours and have some fairly mindless entertainment. The point is, I’m giving them money and after that, my job is to just sit there and enjoy.

But in this instance, I’m expected to pay money so I can have the privlege to post. In my mind there is a very big, very serious difference. It’s like if I paid $5 to go to a poetry reading and once I got there, they made me do the reading for everybody else. I’m not paying to read Diane’s posts. I’m not paying to browse Great Debates. I’m not paying to check out a movie review in Cafe Society. According to this plan, I can do that for free.

No, I’m paying to provide content for this board. I’m paying so that somebody could read what I have to say. I’m paying so I can post my thoughts, my research, and I’m paying so somebody can take offense ot what I say and flame me. I’m paying to give somebody else who isn’t paying something to read.

That seems like a pretty big difference to me. The fact is, without people posting, there wouldn’t be a message board. If enough people say “nuts to this” and leave, there won’t be anything for the paying patrons to read, except their own brilliance over and over again.

I’ll probably end up paying the first year subscription. But the whole idea makes me very, very uncomfortable. Especially since the plan appears to be not to raise money for a better server, but instead, push people away to lighten the load on the server. I don’t like that either.

I wish there was a way I could describe my unease better. It’s not a matter of how much they want from us, or how much is reasonable. It’s not a matter of what I can and can’t afford. It’s the fact they want me to pay to post my thoughts on Angel and The Shield. Thoughts I can post on my own website for free. Or my own LJ for free. We’re not paying for content. We’re paying to contribute.

And that bothers me.

[Diane]

@Revtim

You seem to be very sure that everybody having money problems aren’t already doing all they can. Try and expand your mind to understand that many are indeed doing all they can, but still find 5 bucks precious.

Again, at the risk of sounding like a heartless ogre, I am truly sorry if someone can’t afford the $5.00, but I do not see how that is the fault of the SDMB. I really enjoy a certain restaurant, but if they raise their prices much higher, I won’t be able to afford to eat there. Hopefully enough people can and will keep them in business.

What is the solution? That they not raise their prices? That I stop eating there? That I find a way to come up with the additional money?

I only have control over the last two.

[Diane]

@pepperlandgirl

Is the comparison to magazines, movies, and tv valid though?

Maybe a better comparison would be a cover charge to a bar on karaoke night.

[Revtim]

@Diane

Again, at the risk of sounding like a heartless ogre, I am truly sorry if someone can’t afford the $5.00, but I do not see how that is the fault of the SDMB. I really enjoy a certain restaurant, but if they raise their prices much higher, I won’t be able to afford to eat there. Hopefully enough people can and will keep them in business.

What is the solution? That they not raise their prices? That I stop eating there? That I find a way to come up with the additional money?

I only have control over the last two.

I already said “I’m not saying the board has to be free forever” and “I’m not saying they have to give access for free”. They can charge whatever they want, and I blame them for nothing.

My only problem is your attitude that the people with money problems simply need to “take an hour or two away from the SDMB and earn the $5”. As if they are not already doing all they can to stay afloat. This has NOTHING to do with the SDMB. It has EVERYTHING to do with you seeming to think people can just work a little harder or longer, when in fact they may be already working as hard or long as they can. Why are you assuming that those with money problems are not?

[Diane]

I’ve already responded to that. I will simplify it.
You won’t or CAN’T (see, I understand) earn the $5.00?

How is this the fault of the SDMB and what do you want them to do about it?

[Revtim]

@Diane

How is this the fault of the SDMB and what do you want them to do about it?

I not only never it was their fault, I said the exact opposite.

From my last post:

@Revtim

They can charge whatever they want, and I blame them for nothing.

@Revtim

This has NOTHING to do with the SDMB.

I only want you to understand that many folks are earning as much as they can, and can’t simply work a few more hours as you seemed to imply was easily possible.

[3.885AM]

As I stated earlier, it is not so much the money as the lack of a payment mechanism. I do not use paypall and will not use a credit card for non-essential payments. If there were a method by which I could pay by money order or cash that would be fine.